When does small become tiny?

Puxido · Aug 29, 2014

I'm trying my hand at making custom races for campaigns again, and I decided to try to make a custom fairy race. Now I thought I'd make them about a foot tall, small enough to be dwarfed by a gnome but not so small that you could swat them with a shoe. Then I thought to myself, gnomes are 3 feet tall, and they count as small. But would 1 foot be small or tiny? Where does small end and tiny begin?

Debby · Aug 29, 2014

Puxido said:
I'm trying my hand at making custom races for campaigns again, and I decided to try to make a custom fairy race. Now I thought I'd make them about a foot tall, small enough to be dwarfed by a gnome but not so small that you could swat them with a shoe. Then I thought to myself, gnomes are 3 feet tall, and they count as small. But would 1 foot be small or tiny? Where does small end and tiny begin?

Good question. I didn't see an answer in the PRD or in the Core Rulebook. I think Pathfinder gives more overlap in sizes. I generally use the SRD definitions: Fine is 6 inches or less, Diminutive is 6 inches to 1 foot, Tiny is 1 foot to 2 feet, Small is 2 feet to 4 feet, Medium is 4 feet to 8 feet, Large is 8 feet to 16 feet and so forth.

Obviously, there are some exceptions. 1 foot could be either big for a Diminutive creature or little for a Tiny one. Depends on what you deem is average.

Debby

Puxido · Aug 29, 2014

Good question. I didn't see an answer in the PRD or in the Core Rulebook. I think Pathfinder gives more overlap in sizes. I generally use the SRD definitions: Fine is 6 inches or less, Diminutive is 6 inches to 1 foot, Tiny is 1 foot to 2 feet, Small is 2 feet to 4 feet, Medium is 4 feet to 8 feet, Large is 8 feet to 16 feet and so forth.

Obviously, there are some exceptions. 1 foot could be either big for a Diminutive creature or little for a Tiny one. Depends on what you deem is average.

I'm not too familiar with SRD to be honest. But I get your point on the exceptions.

Let's assume humans are average. We know from the core rulebook their size is medium, what can we gather from that?

BigVanVader · Aug 29, 2014

Are we counting humans with dwarfism and giantism?

Puxido · Aug 30, 2014

Are we counting humans with dwarfism and giantism?

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358863-When-does-small-become-tiny#ixzz3BprGLQ60

No.

Cleon · Aug 30, 2014

Puxido said:
I'm not too familiar with SRD to be honest. But I get your point on the exceptions.

Let's assume humans are average. We know from the core rulebook their size is medium, what can we gather from that?

it's curious that Pathfinder doesn't include typical dimensions and weights for creatures of different sizes in its Creature Size and Scale table.

The 3E D&D System Reference Document (SRD) does include typical values in its Creature Size and Scale table, so it does seem reasonable to assume Pathfinder creatures use similar values since it's an Open Game Licence product that's (supposedly) compatible with the SRD.

The relevant bites in this case are:

Size	Height or Length¹	Weight²
Fine	6 in. or less	1/8 lb. or less
Diminutive	6 in. - 1 ft.	1/8 lb. - 1 lb.
Tiny	1 ft. - 2 ft.	1 lb. - 8 lb.
Small	2 ft. - 4 ft.	8 lb. - 60 lb.
Medium	4 ft. - 8 ft.	60 lb. - 500 lb.
Large	8 ft. - 16 ft.	500 lb. - 2 tons
Huge	16 ft. - 32 ft.	2 tons - 16 tons
Gargantuan	32 ft. - 64 ft.	16 tons - 125 tons
Colossal	64 ft. or more	125 tons or more

Assumes that the creature is roughly as dense as a regular animal. A creature made of stone will weigh considerably more. A gaseous creature will weigh much less.
These values are typical for creatures of the indicated size. Some exceptions exist.

So a foot tall Fey like you're designing would typically be Tiny sized in 3E, and is probably the same size category in Pathfinder. Going by the above table it ought to weigh somewhere around 1 to 8 pounds.

It's unlikely to be Small. A Pathfinder Grig is Tiny sized and eighteen inches tall, 50% taller than the 1 foot you mentioned.

A Pathfinder Atomie is the next size smaller (Diminutive) and "stands just under a foot tall and weighs 2 pounds".

BigVanVader · Aug 30, 2014

Look at the difference between small and medium. Look at the amount of weight that qualifies as small, versus what qualifies as medium. That is a completely insane difference in numbers.

delericho · Aug 30, 2014

Puxido said:
I'm trying my hand at making custom races for campaigns again, and I decided to try to make a custom fairy race. Now I thought I'd make them about a foot tall, small enough to be dwarfed by a gnome but not so small that you could swat them with a shoe. Then I thought to myself, gnomes are 3 feet tall, and they count as small. But would 1 foot be small or tiny? Where does small end and tiny begin?

It pretty much comes down to "the monster description says it's Small" (or Tiny). There tends to be some significant overlap between the categories. And rightly so - consider the difference in bulk between someone who's tall but very thin versus one who's equally tall but vastly more muscular.

Having said that, I'd peg a race that averages 1 foot in height as being Tiny in most cases.

When does small become tiny?

Puxido

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Debby

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delericho

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