D&D 5E Beastmaster's animal companion: can it survive for 2 rounds?

jadrax

Adventurer
So which edition would you want to revert back to to replace this feature?

I would roll back to 5e but base it on a pact of chain warlock.

Challenge 1 creatures, Check (Imp or Quasit)
Pet Acts on its own initiative without you commanding it, Check (except Attack actions)
Pet can't actually be killed, Check.

Ok, the Chain pack Warlock doesn't get a single other feature that boosts its pet, but its still much better of out the gate than the Beast Lord, and frankly I think the fact that your pet will dodge on its own means it is always a superior choice.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I would roll back to 5e but base it on a pact of chain warlock.

Challenge 1 creatures, Check (Imp or Quasit)
Pet Acts on its own initiative without you commanding it, Check (except Attack actions)
Pet can't actually be killed, Check.

Ok, the Chain pack Warlock doesn't get a single other feature that boosts its pet, but its still much better of out the gate than the Beast Lord, and frankly I think the fact that your pet will dodge on its own means it is always a superior choice.

Uh, in no world is the Imp with pact of the chain better than the animal companion
We've already established via twitter with Mearles that the wolf can do things for self preservation if it calls for it, i.e. it doesn't just stand there and take hits until it dies. An Imp has a lower AC (13 v 15 for a wolf) a lower amount of HP (10 v 11), does less damage (+5 v +6, 1d4 + 3 v 2d4 +4, not including if the poison works) and while the Imp will always be that strong, the animal companion will continue to get more and more powerful. And I'm not sure where you're getting that it can't be killed, because it most definitely can, and fairly easily. Where they actually differ is that the Imp is an absolutely brilliant scout, and probably overpowered because of it, but rangers have never been able to get imps anyway so that point is moot.
 

jadrax

Adventurer
Uh, in no world is the Imp with pact of the chain better than the animal companion
We've already established via twitter with Mearles that the wolf can do things for self preservation if it calls for it, i.e. it doesn't just stand there and take hits until it dies.

Which 100% contracts the RAW. If you decide to ignore that, yes the Wolf gets better. I am still not convinced it gets much better mind, a Bonus to hit in game with universal low AC is not fantastic, nor is a minimum of 4 hp per level.

As for your argument that a Challenge 1 Imp or Quasit is weaker than a Challenge 1/4 Wolf, I think we can assume the designers disagree... due to the Challenge due to Challenge actually being a measure of how good they are.

And I'm not sure where you're getting that it can't be killed, because it most definitely can, and fairly easily.

'When the familiar drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears after you cast this spell again.'
 

Which 100% contracts the RAW. If you decide to ignore that, yes the Wolf gets better. I am still not convinced it gets much better mind, a Bonus to hit in game with universal low AC is not fantastic, nor is a minimum of 4 hp per level.

So having the same hp as a wizard and being able to hit as well as a fighter is a bad thing? If the imp has a +4 bonus and a level 10 wolf has a +8bonus, they will be able to hit something almost twice as often as the imp. Not a small bonus by any means, as well as the fact that the wolf will be able to eventually make two attacks just as a bonus action from the ranger. The warlock would have to give up everything on their turn to make the familiar attack

As for your argument that a Challenge 1 Imp or Quasit is weaker than a Challenge 1/4 Wolf, I think we can assume the designers disagree... due to the Challenge due to Challenge actually being a measure of how good they are.

that is a straw man argument. I said that a CR 1/4 animal companion is more powerful than a CR1 imp, and I gave evidence to prove it. What's your excuse?

'
When the familiar drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears after you cast this spell again.'
Absolute semantics. Can you use the familiar when it vanishes? Didn't think so. The equivalent of death for combat purposes.
 


I think the answer to this has already been expanded upon rather eloquently by @epochrpg above.

So this goes back to what I was arguing before: Which edition's example do you go back to in order to replace this one's class feature? In epochrpg's comment, the same thing would apply for every edition's animal companion. They have always been weak to the point of death by fireball, and this edition is no different. There was no alternative way of getting back an animal companion in previous editions just like this one, and in fact they made this one better for it by not having any crazy limitations for getting the animal companion back.

My points still stand. There is no alternative in the player's handbook that is better than the ranger's animal companion, and there is no history of the animal companion being vastly more powerful than it is right now either.
 

jadrax

Adventurer
So this goes back to what I was arguing before: Which edition's example do you go back to in order to replace this one's class feature? In epochrpg's comment, the same thing would apply for every edition's animal companion. They have always been weak to the point of death by fireball, and this edition is no different. There was no alternative way of getting back an animal companion in previous editions just like this one, and in fact they made this one better for it by not having any crazy limitations for getting the animal companion back.

My points still stand. There is no alternative in the player's handbook that is better than the ranger's animal companion, and there is no history of the animal companion being vastly more powerful than it is right now either.

To be frank, I am not really sure how the relevant strength Animal Companions in past editions should in any way be considered relevant to this thread? We do not have to go back to a prior edition, you are for some reason inventing a requirement we in no way have to meet. So I regret to say that your points are a total irrelevance to the topic at hand.
 

To be frank, I am not really sure how the relevant strength Animal Companions in past editions should in any way be considered relevant to this thread? We do not have to go back to a prior edition, you are for some reason inventing a requirement we in no way have to meet. So I regret to say that your points are a total irrelevance to the topic at hand.

My response was originally to epochrpg's post in which he stated that a ranger's companion should be durable. The only way to get that sort of idea is if that had been the case in the past, otherwise we wouldn't have any notion of what animal companions should be like. Therefore, I responded by saying that the companions are just as tough as they have always been, countering his point. This is perfectly relevant to the OP's title "Can it survive for 2 rounds?" which, yes, indeed it can.

However, I note that you have not responded to any of the other points that I posted. Therefore, I have to assume you have nothing else to discuss, and wish to continue nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I will not respond to that again, so have a good day.
 

BASHMAN

Basic Action Games
My response was originally to epochrpg's post in which he stated that a ranger's companion should be durable. The only way to get that sort of idea is if that had been the case in the past, otherwise we wouldn't have any notion of what animal companions should be like. Therefore, I responded by saying that the companions are just as tough as they have always been, countering his point. This is perfectly relevant to the OP's title "Can it survive for 2 rounds?" which, yes, indeed it can.

However, I note that you have not responded to any of the other points that I posted. Therefore, I have to assume you have nothing else to discuss, and wish to continue nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. I will not respond to that again, so have a good day.

The 4e companions were much better than 5e and I'm not exactly a huge fan of 4e. In other editions, you could
get better companions as you leveled (I'd take a wolf, and when I could get a dire wolf say it grew up, so it
was the same pet the whole time).

That said, who said it has to be compared to another edition? The section on mounts gave
griffins as an example; there is no class feature to have a pet griffin (except 3.0 may have allowed this in a
splat book for paladins). The character concept demands the pet live for more than 2 game sessions in a row
while still getting to play an active role. It cannot do that with 4hp per level and no decent saves.

My own experience was in DnD Rules Cyclopedia that the GM house-ruled to allow GURPS Ads and Disads
(this was quite a long while ago, as you may imagine). But by this method, I had a pet dire-wolf
at 5th level. In 3e and 4e, it was possible to re-create this character. In 5e, it is impossible to ever
get a dire-wolf as a ranger's companion. You have to go druid, and then devote a spell slot to casting "animal friendship' on it every day, until you can finally cast Awaken on it.

An Awakened animal is also better in every conceivable way. Not only can it think for itself
and defend itself, it can do this when you have a horrible DM in league play who insists on being
a complete rules lawyer. Mearls can tweet that a companion can do this all he wants; until it is in the rules,
there will be DMs out there, especially in league play that will ignore the "just use common sense" tweet
and use the RAW, which says the opposite (it says the pet sits there an does nothing unless you spend an
action; the GM can reskin this as it snarling and dodging till he is blue in the face, but in mechanics,
the animal sits there and does nothing).
 

Stalker0

Legend
I can see some tweaks being made on the defense side, and if its too strong than a downgrade to the offense would be fine to me.


I would much rather have a durable companion that doesn't suck up all of my healing (so more hitpoints but also better AC, and maybe evasion), than a glass cannon.

The average party member has a d8 HD, and I would wager a 14 con, so roughly 6-7 hp per level.

so maybe ranger level x 6 in hp, prof bonus to AC and attacks, but not to damage...or something of that nature.
 

Remove ads

Top