History repeating?

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 18, 2015

Primates + Canines = symbiosis?

Scientists have observed an interesting relationship between a couple of particular species over the past few years.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazing-images-show-looks-monkeys-203000635.html

GMMichael · Jun 18, 2015

Well, they obviously don't like us for our pleasant demeanors.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Jun 18, 2015

Dannyalcatraz said:
Primates + Canines = symbiosis?

Scientists have observed an interesting relationship between a couple of particular species over the past few years.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazing-images-show-looks-monkeys-203000635.html

It's interesting that there is no apparent advantage for the primates in this case. Maybe that comes later in the domestication process? (Though I suppose one obvious advantage here is that the wolves don't attack the apes? Maybe that's a bit underrated as advantage in the article?)

Deuce Traveler · Jun 18, 2015

History is rhyming. Nice article.

Janx · Jun 18, 2015

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
It's interesting that there is no apparent advantage for the primates in this case. Maybe that comes later in the domestication process? (Though I suppose one obvious advantage here is that the wolves don't attack the apes? Maybe that's a bit underrated as advantage in the article?)

it might be that the monkeys don't have as much brains to figure out how to use the relationship. Whereas the wolves clearly found value in it.

It's funny that feral dogs (are they really dogs) are the enemy, and the wolves are the friend.

A few years back I watched a show about dogs, and they had talked about some experiments. Basically wolf pups raised up in a family acted like they were autistic, unlike real dogs. So dogs would be expected to be more likely to bond with humans. They also showed a russian 50 year long experiment on foxes where they selectively bred the tamest ones. What they got were foxes that looked and acted like dogs. Basically dogs are permanent wolf puppies. Whatever genes that make them more friendly also affects coloring and ears.

Umbran · Jun 18, 2015

Janx said:
They also showed a russian 50 year long experiment on foxes where they selectively bred the tamest ones. What they got were foxes that looked and acted like dogs. Basically dogs are permanent wolf puppies. Whatever genes that make them more friendly also affects coloring and ears.

In that experiment, the idea was to breed foxes that could be raised in a farm-like environment, for their fur coats. To work as farmed animals,they'd need to be much more docile than wild foxes.

And, as Janx notes, they succeeded in breeding a more docile fox, that acted like a dog / puppy (actually, for a fox, the young are called kits). And with that permanent-kit behavior came... the kit's fur coat, useless for the fur trade. They had simply bread for the animal to hold onto traits of youth for longer.

The term for this in biology is "neoteny", extended youth.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 18, 2015

As you might expect, the Russian experiment has turned into a commercial pet fox farm. They're not cheap, of course.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3037451/pet-week/meet-your-new-pet-a-domesticated-fox

Tonguez · Jun 20, 2015

It would seem more a case of the wolves domesticating the Gelada in order to assist with their hunting success, which would be quite ironic if the same applied to humans who are of course themselves neotenic apes.

Did the wolf domestic primitive hominids to assist with their hunting strategy which lead to the scavenging hominids having increase access to meat to spur development of their brains and thus intelligence, until the hominids descendents claimed to have domesticated the wolf and not the other way round....

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 20, 2015

Wolves domesticated man. I know this because I live in a house with 2 border collies who neither herd sheep nor do cute things in front of cameras to earn money, yet never miss a meal, get refrigerated water, and live in an air-conditioned house.

Then cats masterminded a hostile takeover.

History repeating?

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