Seven Views of Mount Cannoli: Subjective Preferences in Geek Media

[Bedrockgames]

I mean, the same question still applies. Being over-rated implies the existence of a level of praise that is acceptable. How is that level set? Is there a meaning to "overrated" other than "I don't like it much"? Does the abstraction to ratings add anything?

I'm here for the media metaphor, not the actual cuisine of the actual North End.

If the question is about the critique 'overrated' as a general matter, I tend to think it is prone to overuse and sometimes lazy. It can be valid though. There can be an emperor's new clothes situation where a hot movie takes off, and because key influencers boosted it or it garnered a reputation through early reviews, it gets rated more highly than it deserves and that balances out over time. Admittedly we are still talking about something very subjective, but any criticism of art is subjective. I think when people say 'this is overrated' they are really saying something a little deeper which is 'if people really examined this thing, they would realize it isn't as special as they think'. And I believe that is a fair question you can ask someone. I don't believe it is fair to be insistent upon it though once they give an answer.

But I also think @Snarf Zagyg is the furthest thing from a lazy critic. So in this case, my instinct if I am really trying to engage the criticism is to ask the person what they mean by that and drill into the topic a little more.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm here for the media metaphor, not the actual cuisine of the actual North End.

That just leaves more cannoli for the rest of us !

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That said, I can sort of get the critique in that people might really be saying "What is the big deal with a cannoli?"

That sounds like the beginning of a lesser-known Seinfeld routine....

What is the deal with cannoli? It’s a cornswaggle, but somehow it’s also an overrated Italian pastry! And why the two "n's" but single "l"? Was the L Store out of stock, or is it just that Sully from the North End refused to loan one of his?

But I also think @Snarf Zagyg is the furthest thing from a lazy critic.

That reminds me ... I need to post one from the archives!

 

[Umbran]

Do you think that anything can be reasonably described as overrated?

I think that depends on what we claim it means, which I haven't really been able to establish.

Imagine a movie that isn't particularly socially controversial, so RottenTomatoes ratings might be considered a vaguely informative sampling.

1) If we have over a hundred professional reviewers, and it gets a 90% positive rating from them, but the viewers give it a 50%, I think "That movie was overrated" might be a reasonable statement.

2) Similar movie, 90% positive on professional reviewers, 90% positive from viewers, but I actively disliked it and wish I could get my money back: "I found it to be overrated" is probably reasonable.

3) Similar movie, but I don't actually look at RottenTomatoes to know what the ratings are actually like. "The movie was overrated," seems then like an attempt to add legitimacy to the statement it doesn't deserve. "It didn't live up what I heard about it," might be reasonable.

 

[Mannahnin]

I think that depends on what we claim it means, which I haven't really been able to establish.

Yeah, I think this is at the core of our difference here. If I'm reading you correctly it doesn't seem that, by your lights, the simple adjective "overrated" is ever applicable. It would always need to be qualified, with by whom, and in relation to what, specified.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, I think this is at the core of our difference here. If I'm reading you correctly it doesn't seem that, by your lights, the simple adjective "overrated" is ever applicable. It would always need to be qualified, with by whom, and in relation to what, specified.

Closer to say that "overrated," without added information, is ambiguous.

Now, that's not strange. Most single words are ambiguous. "Apple" is only so specific - do I mean the fruit, or the computer company? So, we put other words around them to give the context.

I'm a fan of carefully chosen words for context, whether we speak of games or cannoli.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That sounds like the beginning of a lesser-known Seinfeld routine....

What is the deal with cannoli? It’s a cornswaggle, but somehow it’s also an overrated Italian pastry! And why the two "n's" but single "l"? Was the L Store out of stock, or is it just that Sully from the North End refused to loan one of his?

The L Store sounds more like a Constanza move than a Jerry move

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The L Store sounds more like a Constanza move than a Jerry move

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I've heard similar, but with coffee. In their case: likes the smell of roasted coffee beans, thinks coffee as it is brewing is great. Can not stand coffee as a drink. Has sampled hundreds of varieties, in all kinds of quantities in different types of drink. Has been insisted too by many that if they simply try this one variety, brew method, and so on, they'll inevitably be converted.

It has not happened; they just don't like coffee.

I was this person for the longest time. About 10 years back my wife and a friend convinced to try a coffee from a particular Italian cafe. I had a Paul on the road to Damascus moment. I don't drink it evey day. In fact, I average about one a week. On the weekend at a cafe somewhere because it has to be coffee machine coffee. But it's in the mix.

Tea is still is my first love, always will be. But the occasional affair with coffee provides a nice counterpoint.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I know what I said about cannoli earlier in this thread; that sentiment still stands.

BUT!

I just tried Luigi’s, a new Italian restaurant near me and had one of the better Italian meals I’ve had in quite a while. And when dessert time arrived, I tried their cannoli because they don’t serve gelato.

Simply put, it was the best damn cannoli I’ve ever had. Fluffy mascarpone. Distinct cinnamon flavor that didn’t overwhelm. A chocolate topping that was intense without actually being dark.

I let my dining companions try it. One stopped mid sentence to do a double take at the plate and go “Oh, #¿*!”.