D&D 5E Phantom Steed duration beyond damage.

jodyjohnson · Aug 11, 2017

Reading the effect of when the spell ends it seems like when the Steed loses it's '1' hp it still is useable for another minute.

Is that how other DMs would rule the spell?

PHB p265 said:
PHANTOM STEED
3rd-/level Illusion (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 hour
A Large quasi-real, horselike creature appears on
the ground in an unoccupied space of your choice
within range. You decide the creature's appearance,
but it is equipped with a saddle, bit. and bridle. Any
of the equipment created by the spell vanishes in a
puff of smoke if it is carried more than 10 feet away
from the steed.
For the duration, you or a creature you choose can
ride the steed. The creature uses the statistics for a
riding horse, except it has a speed of 100 feet and can
travel 10 miles in an hour, or 13 miles at a fast pace.
When the spell ends. the steed gradually fades. giving
the rider 1 minute to dismount. The spell ends if you use
an action to dismiss it or if the steed takes any damage.

Gonat · Aug 11, 2017

I find myself in agreement with you.
The caster do have a minute after the horse take damage.
However... a dead phantom steed will not be a really good transport in that minute, and a 'Dispel magic' spell will puff away the steed.
That is how I interpret this spell, I'm a DM, so you have one (of probably many) answer.

MechaTarrasque · Aug 11, 2017

That seems reasonable. I would probably say that once it takes damage and the fading starts, you can't use it for cover or as an indestructible wall for the next 9 rounds, but you can ride it until it fades away completely.

Pauln6 · Aug 11, 2017

This spell seems to have yo-yo'd in its usefulness. It's no longer viable as a method of long term travel. I was toying with making it a scaling spell to give it a longer duration and terrain effects that it had under earlier editions.

FormerlyHemlock · Aug 11, 2017

jodyjohnson said:
Reading the effect of when the spell ends it seems like when the Steed loses it's '1' hp it still is useable for another minute.

Is that how other DMs would rule the spell?

As DM I'd rule that:

(1) You are correct about the rules as written;
(2) The rules as written are dumb.

I would lobby the table to persuade them that it's better for an illusion that takes damage to vanish instantly, and that the "gradually fades" clause should apply only to a steed that runs out of duration. Ultimately though I don't really care, and I'd rule whichever way the table decided we were going to rule.

In other words, this is not one of those cases where I'd exercise my "I'm the DM right now and I refuse to run a game with any other ruling--you can either fire me or accept it" veto. I reserve that veto for monumentally stupid things like Greatberry (Disciple of Life + Goodberry).

FormerlyHemlock · Aug 11, 2017

Pauln6 said:
This spell seems to have yo-yo'd in its usefulness. It's no longer viable as a method of long term travel. I was toying with making it a scaling spell to give it a longer duration and terrain effects that it had under earlier editions.

That's really not necessary. It's a ritual spell, and technically there's nothing preventing a spellcaster from re-casting the ritual spell while riding his phantom steed, so in effect it has an unlimited duration as long as you keep re-casting the spell every hour. (Ritual casting = no spell slot cost when you spend the extra ten minutes.)

MarkB · Aug 11, 2017

The creature has the statistics of a riding horse, except as specified. So, if it takes any damage it becomes a fading horse, and if it takes damage sufficient to kill a riding horse it becomes a dead fading horse.

Pauln6 · Aug 11, 2017

Hemlock said:
That's really not necessary. It's a ritual spell, and technically there's nothing preventing a spellcaster from re-casting the ritual spell while riding his phantom steed, so in effect it has an unlimited duration as long as you keep re-casting the spell every hour. (Ritual casting = no spell slot cost when you spend the extra ten minutes.)

Yes, I suppose you could hand wave away the 10 mins every hour part in the same way you hand wave away resting, feeding, and watering mounts. It does prevent you from creating steeds for the whole group. However, there are circumstances where I'd like to cast a higher level version to cross a chasm, which is no better than a fly spell, or where I'd be willing to burn spell slots to allow the group to ride for a day without horses. I wonder if it was restricted to limit options for sorcerers and their spells known.

And for my part, if it takes damage, it disappears instantly. Your mount is effectively dead, and the dismounting rules come into play, albeit you can't be pinned under an illusory mount that has ceased to be.

FormerlyHemlock · Aug 11, 2017

Pauln6 said:
And for my part, if it takes damage, it disappears instantly. Your mount is effectively dead, and the dismounting rules come into play, albeit you can't be pinned under an illusory mount that has ceased to be.

Being pinned under a dead mount isn't part of the Basic or PHB rules, but it does make sense if you're looking for extra realism and/or extra reasons to take good care of your horse.

Pauln6 · Aug 11, 2017

Hemlock said:
Being pinned under a dead mount isn't part of the Basic or PHB rules, but it does make sense if you're looking for extra realism and/or extra reasons to take good care of your horse.

I'd probably make it an athletics check. Fail by more than 5 or natural 1 and you are pinned. You can give advantage to those with mounted background or feats. The system is light enough to do on the fly.