Trying to make a good vengeance paladin, I need some help.
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  1. #1
    Gallant (Lvl 3)

    krunchyfrogg's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Morris/Sussex Counties, NJ

    Trying to make a good vengeance paladin, I need some help.

    Hey guys, Im looking at trying out a paladin in my next game. Well start at level 1.

    Im torn on many aspects, from race, to STR vs DEX, to one handed weapon vs two handers (STR only). Should I consider multiclassing a little later?

    Im using point buy. I want to use sailor as my background. Here are some ideas:

    Variant human 16/8/14/8/10/16 great weapon master

    Half elf 16/10/14/8/12/16

    Half elf 8/16/14/10/12/16

    Halfling 8/16/14/8/12/16

    I dont know if I should multiclass down the line or not.

    Any advice from experienced paladin players would be welcome.

  2. #2
    Myrmidon (Lvl 10)

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    What do you want out of this character? Do you want him to be tough as nails? or maximum DPR? or just be all around awesome?

    I'd go variant human and take Heavy Armor Mastery at level 1. That would give you 16, 10, 14, 8, 10, 16 to start. Take Dueling and use a one handed weapon + shield. I don't like GWM feat for Paladins(except Devotion). If you want spike DPR, you have your smites.

    If you want to be more of a party buffer, you could be variant human and take the Inspiring Leader feat at level 1 to give everybody temp hit points before big fights.

    Variant Human with Polearm Master would be fun if you REALLY want max DPR.

    I have a Dex based Halfling Vengeance Pally and he's a lot of fun. He was gifted the Magic Initiate feat for free by the DM so he has Find Familiar along with a couple of cantrips that Pally's normally don't get. I doubt I would ever choose Magic Initiate in a normal campaign over an ASI though.

    You technically don't NEED any feats at all. I played a Tiefling Vengeance Pally with 20, 12, 18, 10, 12, 18 stats but no feats and he was awesome. Vengeance is a strong Oath and you get great spells. You just get shafted with your level 7 feature which is really weak compared to the other Oaths' auras.

  3. #3
    Actually Vengeance easily makes the best use of GWM out of all Paladin oaths. Vow of Enmity plays a big part of that, and then later on so does Haste (Oath spell when you hit Lv. 9). Also be sure to pick up Resilient (CON) by Lv. 8, so you reduce (or even in some cases eliminate) the chance of losing concentration on Haste.

    If you're going Vengeance, you're going for damage. That's what the Oath is for, mechanically. If you're looking to be more of a tank and/or support character, several other Oaths (namely Devotion, Ancients, Conquest) are better for that purpose.

    Multiclassing really isn't necessary, but if you must, get to Lv. 6 (Aura of Protection) first. That said, good multiclassing options are Fighter 2* (Action Surge), Sorcerer 3 (Metamagic: Quicken Spell, Twinned Spell), or Warlock 7 (2 short-rest recharge 4th-level slots for maximum Smiting power).

    *If you're sure you're taking Fighter 2, start your first level as a Fighter so you get CON save proficiency right away and don't have to spend a feat for Resilient (CON). Then 6 Paladin levels, then your second Fighter level.
    Last edited by Gladius Legis; Friday, 5th January, 2018 at 07:39 PM.
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  4. #4
    Greater Elemental (Lvl 23)

    Blue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Cedar Grove, NJ 07009
    The estimable @Gladius Legis said much of what I was going to. Vengance works fantastically with Great Weapon Mastery, so go two handed weapon and enjoy lots of damage.

    Dump Dex - an 8 won't hurt your AC, and you want to go after foes so they have a chance to move closer so you can close and engage on round one.

    Focus on STR & CON (for both Concentration and survivability). Early on don't miss spells like Shield of Faith and Protection from Evil and Good to help keep you up because you will make yourself a target. On the other hand, if you go variant human and pick up GWM at 1st, Bless to land it more is the way to go. (This is in addition to GL's suggestion about Haste at later levels.)

    Depending on what level you expect the game to end at makes a big difference for multiclassing. If it's less than the teens, I wouldn't do it. And you don't need to do it, it's just a different focus.

    If you do multiclass I can't complain about GL's suggestion of Fighter 1st to get CON saves, but it delays so many good paladin abilities it's hard to suggest it. I'd want to stay pure paladin until 5th for extra attack ... no 6th for aura of protection ... no 8th for the ASI ... no 11th for improved divine smite, wait 12th for the ASI, hey 13th is 4th level spells. See the problem?

    Talking about fighter, if you go three levels with your GWM build, you can validly go either Battle Master, to land more +10 damage blows, or Champion to get more crits which give you both more damage and an extra bonus action attack. BM is more reliable, Champion more "oh YES!" when the dice love you.

  5. #5
    Myrmidon (Lvl 10)

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    I love the diversity here where you can ask one question and get many different opinions. I don't like GWM for Vengeance Pallys because while Vow of Enmity is strong, it's only against 1 enemy at a time. Feels too situational to me. I'd much rather have the always on Polearm Master bonus action.

    I didn't mention it earlier, but I would not multiclass at all. The Pally class is so strong, you don't need to.

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