Here's the Abyssal Sibriex From Mordenkainen's Tome

hawkeyefan said:

No.

Click to expand...

Pretty much what I thought. It's easy to posture when you're discussing writing a work of fiction by yourself. Actually planning for all the various contingencies needed to make Lex a threat to a party of Supermen is simply way more hassle than it's worth. Hence why "mastermind" type NPC's should just have these narrative kludges built into their mechanics.

Sacrosanct said:

Firstly, if you're going to use such extremes of hyperbole, then it tells my your position is a pretty weak one. You shouldn't have to rely on hyperbole at all, let alone such extremes, to make your point. Secondly, it's your job as the DM to incorporate all of these things into your adventures (flavor text, INT, stats, preparation, interaction, living world, etc). Failure to do so is on you, not the game. Thirdly, it was you who said the only reason Lex doesn't get immediately wasted is because Superman has a code. So I brought up all the other people who could easily beat Lex in a one on one fight but haven't been able to as a way to show how your logic is extremely flawed.

Click to expand...

So you're in agreement you need some actual mechanics to back up the fluff then.

Also, the others in the DCU don't kill Lex because the author chooses not to have that occur. That doesnt really work for D&D, unless you only play D&D by yourself.

ehren37 said:

Also, the others in the DCU don't kill Lex because the author chooses not to have that occur. That doesnt really work for D&D, unless you only play D&D by yourself.

Click to expand...

So, shifting goal posts then. Noted.

ehren37 said:

Pretty much what I thought. It's easy to posture when you're discussing writing a work of fiction by yourself. Actually planning for all the various contingencies needed to make Lex a threat to a party of Supermen is simply way more hassle than it's worth. Hence why "mastermind" type NPC's should just have these narrative kludges built into their mechanics.

Click to expand...

You misunderstood. I chose not to engage in your ludicrous example where you compared the Sibriex to a 1 HP creature with no spells, gear, or abilities other than a high intelligence.

ehren37 said:

Ok, threaten a PC party with a guy with a 24 INT and 1 HP and no spells, magic items or abilities. You're clearly so smart. Write a scenario that won't feel contrived or frustrating from a player perspective. Otherwise cut the "git good" internet toughguy act lol.

Click to expand...

I'll spend a few minutes on it, just for fun.

Every adventurer has goals, things they want to do... powers or items they want to acquire. Hopefully they're tied into their background. But in any case, they're not entirely secret desires that are never spoken of. An enemy with a 24 Intelligence could deduce them, and pick one of the characters as its target.

Said character receives communication (entirely mundane but effectively untraceable since our Int 24 character uses dead drops so that the person who hands the message to the character has no idea where it came from). Said letter promises furtherance of the adventurer's goals, if they do a few things for the writer of the letter. Nothing too onerous... donate some money at a certain temple, say a special pass-phrase to the shopkeep in order to get a codebook for further communications, write a letter in the code to a noble so that he'll come on board with the mission, etc.

This is a slow burn, while other things are happening. The player (or at least the character) should feel special... they're directly involved with this, and they think it's the hook for the next adventure. Heck, that's even a little bit true.

Of course, the whole thing is a setup. Depending on your preferences, our big bad manipulator can be providing the relevant authorities with evidence of a conspiracy against the throne/city-state/government, complete with written testimony, encrypted communications and physical evidence (if the player has bit hook-line-and-sinker it's easy enough to get them to break into "the enemy's" stronghold). Or, if you want to be a bit more Machiavellian then the other players have been getting letters too. Except that they're now convinced that the targeted character is planning to betray them and as soon as he announces that he's got to go do a special mission all by himself, they all turn on him (or if you want more of a TPK possibility then make it so that the two toughest characters are set against the rest of the party).

Boom. Done.

You didn't need to do anything other than ask your player(s) what their goals were, and spend a bit of prep time writing out some letters and interspersing them with your regular sessions. And now our 24 Int, 1 hp guy has the party in his grips without magic, special weapons or crazy abilities.

And no, it didn't take me any more time to come up with this than what it took to type it.

ehren37 said:

Ok, threaten a PC party with a guy with a 24 INT and 1 HP and no spells, magic items or abilities. You're clearly so smart. Write a scenario that won't feel contrived or frustrating from a player perspective. Otherwise cut the "git good" internet toughguy act lol.

Click to expand...

Drop an avalanche on the party as they travel through a mountain pass; frame the party as traitors and spies to the ruler of the kingdom; lead a band of mountain giants to the party; give them a shield guardian and Armor of Agthys cast at level 5; trick the party into resurrecting a deity-level monster (this is likely to happen in my current adventure) etc etc.

High Int physically weak is pretty much a default villain.

A 40 dice meteor swarm or two along with multiple attacks from action surges, 2 dice magic great weapons, and sneak attacks whittle this thing down in a round or two. Not to mention it's low dexterity which means it will lose in initiative most of the time.

Now, if it gets going, yeah... those abilities can shut down a party.

But, like someone else posted it NEEDS to not be in range of a 18th level party's nukes. It also needs meatshield support. Otherwise, it is just a ugly pinata.

BookBarbarian said:

For my table this has always been true. In the sense that a solo monster will likely never have a chance to TPK the party. I use solo monsters to hint more at bigger plot arcs than to be staple combat encounters.

Click to expand...

I'm not using "solo" as a synonym to "alone" or "one".

I'm referring to 4E terminology where Solo means a monster capable of fulfilling the common trope "a monster awesome enough to take on the entire party singlehandedly"

In my view, WotC pretends this is supported. It is not. Is ought to be.

As a solo creature it’s meant for 13th - 15th lvl PCs. And only 4 PCs at 15th level.

This is getting used