Here's the Abyssal Sibriex From Mordenkainen's Tome

This....thing...is....AWESOME!

 

[darjr]

I just ran a solo monster at tier 4 and the players ran. They were exp players. It was a type of dragon. It would have been a TPK. I will add that the terrain was terribly hostile.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This does nothing to counter my point.

It kind of does. Lex is a threat mainly because Superman doesn't simply kill him from orbit, and plays fair. A 3hp villain might be smart, but he's still magic missile bait when initiative is rolled.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It kind of does. Lex is a threat mainly because Superman doesn't simply kill him from orbit, and plays fair. A 3hp villain might be smart, but he's still magic missile bait when initiative is rolled.

Have you ever read a DC comic or seen a cartoon? Superman isn't the only person in the DC world who doesn't like Lex, and most of them don't have this code you're talking about. And yet...Lex is still one of the most powerful supervillains who hasn't been easily killed. Not because of HP or an attack modifier, but how he thinks and plans and prepares. Why wouldn't you play a super genius monster in the same way, as opposed to playing it like a sack of stats?

 

[hawkeyefan]

It kind of does. Lex is a threat mainly because Superman doesn't simply kill him from orbit, and plays fair. A 3hp villain might be smart, but he's still magic missile bait when initiative is rolled.

So what? Superman need not kill Lex to stop him. He can just as easily scoop him up and throw him in a jail cell in less than a second. Or freeze him with his breath, or whatever.

It's not about Superman's capability. It's about Lex's.

How come Lex is Superman's arch nemesis? How can that be when, as you say, Superman can mop the floor with him?

It's because the writers telling the stories don't just write a boxing match between the two. Lex is smart and behaves so and tries to remain steps ahead of Superman.

To apply this to this thread and similar discussions.....have the bad guys behave like they have a brain. It's not about the stat number in the INT entry so much as what that should mean. Use your knowledge of the players' plans to substitute for the monster's genius intellect. Have it "predict" what they will do and plan accordingly.

Someone gave the example where the PCs would hole up in the Abyss for a few days and observe the Sibriex and then use their observations to gain advantage. Yet it seems that many DMs refuse to do similar preparation for their monsters. Why wouldn't the Sibriex do the same kind of thing? Why wouldn't it have defenses in place that allow it to thwart such preparations on the part of the PCs?

The answer is that it absolutely should do such things.

Instead, it sits around and waits to be ambushed by the PCs. And then the DM faults the stat block.

It's mind bogglingly odd.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

To apply this to this thread and similar discussions.....have the bad guys behave like they have a brain. It's not about the stat number in the INT entry so much as what that should mean. Use your knowledge of the players' plans to substitute for the monster's genius intellect. Have it "predict" what they will do and plan accordingly.

Someone gave the example where the PCs would hole up in the Abyss for a few days and observe the Sibriex and then use their observations to gain advantage. Yet it seems that many DMs refuse to do similar preparation for their monsters. Why wouldn't the Sibriex do the same kind of thing? Why wouldn't it have defenses in place that allow it to thwart such preparations on the part of the PCs?

The answer is that it absolutely should do such things.

Instead, it sits around and waits to be ambushed by the PCs. And then the DM faults the stat block.

It's mind bogglingly odd.

Having just finished the Sunless Citadel, where lowly creatures such a kobolds and goblins have the wits to protect their lair with devious and menacing traps such as: caged skunks, pots of smelly things, little bells etc, I dont understand why people wouldnt give a giant mutated demonic brains the same kind of tactical ingenuity!

Nope, its not in the stat block. Sibriex is too dumb to lay, say, a bear trap to gain advantage against an invading force.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Have you ever read a DC comic or seen a cartoon? Superman isn't the only person in the DC world who doesn't like Lex, and most of them don't have this code you're talking about. And yet...Lex is still one of the most powerful supervillains who hasn't been easily killed. Not because of HP or an attack modifier, but how he thinks and plans and prepares. Why wouldn't you play a super genius monster in the same way, as opposed to playing it like a sack of stats?

You seem to be confusing works of fiction with a game with multiple people playing. Sure, if I control the PC's as well, I can author a story where Brains, the 22 Int guy with 1HP and no abilities is a threat to the PC party.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

So what? Superman need not kill Lex to stop him. He can just as easily scoop him up and throw him in a jail cell in less than a second. Or freeze him with his breath, or whatever.

It's not about Superman's capability. It's about Lex's.

How come Lex is Superman's arch nemesis? How can that be when, as you say, Superman can mop the floor with him?

It's because the writers telling the stories don't just write a boxing match between the two. Lex is smart and behaves so and tries to remain steps ahead of Superman.

To apply this to this thread and similar discussions.....have the bad guys behave like they have a brain. It's not about the stat number in the INT entry so much as what that should mean. Use your knowledge of the players' plans to substitute for the monster's genius intellect. Have it "predict" what they will do and plan accordingly.

Someone gave the example where the PCs would hole up in the Abyss for a few days and observe the Sibriex and then use their observations to gain advantage. Yet it seems that many DMs refuse to do similar preparation for their monsters. Why wouldn't the Sibriex do the same kind of thing? Why wouldn't it have defenses in place that allow it to thwart such preparations on the part of the PCs?

The answer is that it absolutely should do such things.

Instead, it sits around and waits to be ambushed by the PCs. And then the DM faults the stat block.

It's mind bogglingly odd.

Ok, threaten a PC party with a guy with a 24 INT and 1 HP and no spells, magic items or abilities. You're clearly so smart. Write a scenario that won't feel contrived or frustrating from a player perspective. Otherwise cut the "git good" internet toughguy act lol.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Ok, threaten a PC party with a guy with a 24 INT and 1 HP and no spells, magic items or abilities. You're clearly so smart. Write a scenario that won't feel contrived or frustrating from a player perspective. Otherwise cut the "git good" internet toughguy act lol.

Ever heard of Tucker's Kobolds? If you have not, I suggest you give it a look. Its about how even a small bunch of kobolds can be threatening to higher level characters if played organically. Its not a long read and really show that playing intelligently shouldnt feel cheesy, like a cheat or contrived.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You seem to be confusing works of fiction with a game with multiple people playing. Sure, if I control the PC's as well, I can author a story where Brains, the 22 Int guy with 1HP and no abilities is a threat to the PC party.

Firstly, if you're going to use such extremes of hyperbole, then it tells my your position is a pretty weak one. You shouldn't have to rely on hyperbole at all, let alone such extremes, to make your point. Secondly, it's your job as the DM to incorporate all of these things into your adventures (flavor text, INT, stats, preparation, interaction, living world, etc). Failure to do so is on you, not the game. Thirdly, it was you who said the only reason Lex doesn't get immediately wasted is because Superman has a code. So I brought up all the other people who could easily beat Lex in a one on one fight but haven't been able to as a way to show how your logic is extremely flawed.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Ok, threaten a PC party with a guy with a 24 INT and 1 HP and no spells, magic items or abilities. You're clearly so smart. Write a scenario that won't feel contrived or frustrating from a player perspective. Otherwise cut the "git good" internet toughguy act lol.

No.