Monk Unarmed Strike

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shadowoflameth

Adventurer

• Jun 14, 2018

• #1

Question, Because the 5E Players Handbook isn't very clear and the Kensei has brought it up. Does the Unarmed Strike count as a weapon attack for purposes of abilities like the monk's Stunning Strike? In 4e the monk's Unarmed Strike was on the weapon table but was not a 'weapon'. It seems like a monk ought to be able to stun with it but what's the rule?

Also, if the monk Unarmed Strike is a monk weapon and a Simple Melee weapon, can it be chosen as a Kensei weapon at 3rd?

If the monk also has a spell that uses a weapon attack for example Greenflame Blade could he then use it with the Monk Unarmed Strike? I know how I'd like to rule it as DM but unbiased opinions of the RAW?

 

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guachi

Hero

• Jun 14, 2018

• #2

I'm pretty sure that Unarmed Strikes are no longer weapons. However, if something requires a "melee weapon attack" then Unarmed Strikes are those. What Unarmed Strikes won't work with are things that require an "attack with a melee weapon", which is a different thing.

 

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Dausuul

Legend

• Jun 14, 2018

• #3

guachi said:

I'm pretty sure that Unarmed Strikes are no longer weapons. However, if something requires a "melee weapon attack" then Unarmed Strikes are those. What Unarmed Strikes won't work with are things that require an "attack with a melee weapon", which is a different thing.

Click to expand...

Yup. An unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack, but it is not an attack with a melee weapon. Throwing a dagger is a ranged weapon attack, but it is not an attack with a ranged weapon.

Remember when 5E was supposed to use "natural language" that didn't require hyper-technical parsing?

 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

• Jun 14, 2018

• #4

Upshot: you can’t choose unarmed strike as a kensei weapon.

 

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shadowoflameth

Adventurer

• Jun 14, 2018

• #5

Makes sense and is as I was leaning to ruling it. They really ought to make these things more clear in the verbiage. Is there errata for 5e on this?

 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

Supporter

• Jun 14, 2018

• #6

The PHB errata are here.

p. 149 unarmed strikes don't belong on a weapon table.
p. 195 addresses unarmed strikes.

 

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shadowoflameth

Adventurer

• Jun 14, 2018

• #7

Thanks, P195 says you can make a melee attack with an unarmed strike but it doesn't specify if it counts as a weapon as matters with say stunning strike. The errata helps.

 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock

Supporter

• Jun 14, 2018

• #8

yes - that's why unarmed strike was removed from the weapons list.

The original rules had the advantage of meaning that some classes (Druid, Sorceror, Wizard) were not proficient in punching, which I actually thought was a nice touch.

 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

• Jun 14, 2018

• #9

shadowoflameth said:

Thanks, P195 says you can make a melee attack with an unarmed strike but it doesn't specify if it counts as a weapon as matters with say stunning strike. The errata helps.

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Actually you can use Stunning Strike with an unarmed strike. SS says "When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack," while the unarmed strike rules say "Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike."

So you can make a melee weapon attack with an unarmed strike, even though it is not a weapon!

 

Bradley Hindman

Explorer

• Jun 14, 2018

• #10

guachi said:

I'm pretty sure that Unarmed Strikes are no longer weapons. However, if something requires a "melee weapon attack" then Unarmed Strikes are those. What Unarmed Strikes won't work with are things that require an "attack with a melee weapon", which is a different thing.

Click to expand...

Is there any reason for this perverse "rule"? Does it really imbalance anything if unarmed strikes are just considered another melee weapon, treated like all others?