WotC Considering NPC Stat Format Change

robus · Mar 8, 2019

Prakriti said:
Ah, the good old days when the book told you an attack's damage range (9-53) and expected you to figure out what dice+modifiers were needed to get that result. That is one thing I definitely don't miss from AD&D.

Seriously?!

Prakriti · Mar 8, 2019

robus said:
Seriously?!

Yes, seriously.

But I'm pretty sure lowkey made up 9-53. Most of the damage-ranges were pretty easy to figure out. 2-8 could only be 2d4, for example, 2-16 = 2d8, 2-7 = 1d6+1, etc. (Those are all examples from the original Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan.)

I think they switched to the modern format sometime toward the end of 1E, probably because the old method was ridiculous.

NaturalZero · Mar 9, 2019

I remember when 5e came out, they were toting the natural language design paradigm and it was pretty obviously a reaction to 4e. The more a I play 5e though, the more i miss the old 4e stat blocks, which were concise and easy to follow. Often times, looking through paragraphs in spells slows things down and feels like sorting through chaff, trying to find the keywords you actually need to play. Just give me the keywords and leave me the with responsibility to come up with the flavor and evocative descriptions myself.

Alzrius · Mar 9, 2019

Merudo said:
People need to keep in mind that WotC does not write primarily with DMs in mind.

WotC is writing for all the people who buy an adventure book, read it for pleasure, and then never run the adventure.

From what I seen from other DM buddies a good 80% of books are never run - they are simply read for entertainment.

As a result, books tend to be organized poorly and important information tend to be spread out through paragraphs of text.

I was under the impression that 5E made not doing exactly this one of its design goals. This is from a blog post someone wrote a couple of years ago:

During all the hours you wanted to play games like Dungeons & Dragons but couldn’t, you settled for exploring the game world by reading its source books. So the Complete Guide to the Tribes of the Southeast Highlands of S’norr sold to be read rather than played.

In those days, gaming used to be what D&D boss Mike Mearls called “a hobby of not playing the game you wanted to play.” Fate designer Fred Hicks calls time spent creating characters or reading game books “lonely fun.”

Electronic games took away the appeal of lonely fun. Now wherever you have a laptop or phone, you can game. “People are just playing games now,” Mearls says.

I mean, I agree with the idea that gamers - or at least a sizeable subset of gamers - tend to buy more books than they'll ever use (and they know it too); certainly, I do it. For me, it's because the siren's song of "I might (be able to) use this, someday" is considerable, and because yes, I do enjoy reading the books unto themselves. And I agree that was part of the marketing strategy for a long time. But the idea that 5E abandoned it was certainly a plausible one to me.

So really, that makes this idea of making stat abbreviations more prose-oriented a bit of a head-scratcher.

jmucchiello · Mar 9, 2019

Merudo said:
WotC is writing for all the people who buy an adventure book, read it for pleasure, and then never run the adventure.

I find it hard to believe that the kind of person who reads an adventure book for pleasure is put out by the occasional (LE, ac:15, hp: 34, +7 melee shortsword 1d6+2) in the book. That's the kind of thing your eye can just scan past in a jiffy. Not one of these kinds of buyers has ever said, "That's it. If I see one more statblock I'm never buying one of these adventure books EVER again." <hand slam on table>

ZeshinX · Mar 9, 2019

It's change for the sake of change. It's idiotic. It makes it more difficult to use, not less. Having the stats in quick, abbreviated form is infinitely more useful...you can get the basics with a quick glance. With this proposed change, there's a very strong likelihood of it killing the flow of the moment.

R_Chance · Mar 9, 2019

This is what happens when you don't let them work on game books! They think of new (or old-new) ways of messing up the next one they do get to work on

Seriously, I read their adventures. I don't run them. I do my own. Bumping in to stat blocks never stopped me from reading the books. Well, looking back that doesn'r sound "serious"... but this idea brings out that in me.

Henry · Mar 9, 2019

Merudo said:
People need to keep in mind that WotC does not write primarily with DMs in mind.

WotC is writing for all the people who buy an adventure book, read it for pleasure, and then never run the adventure.

From what I seen from other DM buddies a good 80% of books are never run - they are simply read for entertainment.

As a result, books tend to be organized poorly and important information tend to be spread out through paragraphs of text.

Is this really still true, though? I know back when they were putting out a hardcover and a bunch of soft covers every month, this was actually true; however, with so few releases per year and all the focus on mainly adventure content, I think more people are actually PLAYING with this material, than just consuming for pleasure reading.

I’m really not one for “one true wayisms” at all, but to buy an adventure with no plan to ever use it, just read and stick on a shelf, especially when the hobby is more popular than ever in history, and the D&D stigma is at an all time low, that’s kind of like buying a Dodge Viper only so you can sit in it in your garage and play the radio.

R_Chance · Mar 9, 2019

Henry said:
Is this really still true, though? I know back when they were putting out a hardcover and a bunch of soft covers every month, this was actually true; however, with so few releases per year and all the focus on mainly adventure content, I think more people are actually PLAYING with this material, than just consuming for pleasure reading.

I’m really not one for “one true wayisms” at all, but to buy an adventure with no plan to ever use it, just read and stick on a shelf, especially when the hobby is more popular than ever in history, and the D&D stigma is at an all time low, that’s kind of like buying a Dodge Viper only so you can sit in it in your garage and play the radio.

I have a shelf full of 5E adventures (all of them except Ravnica -- no interest in that one), and haven't run any of them. I've read them though. As for cars, I saw a 2007 Shelby GT500 for sale at a local dealership 4 years ago (iirc). It had less than 30,000 miles on it. I think they drove it out and listened to the radio on weekends. Occasionally

S'mon · Mar 9, 2019

Castles & Crusades did this. I always hated it.

WotC Considering NPC Stat Format Change

robus

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Prakriti

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NaturalZero

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Alzrius

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jmucchiello

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ZeshinX

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R_Chance

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Henry

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R_Chance

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S'mon

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