D&D 5E How do you handle the "economy killing spells" in your game?

Fenris-77 · Jun 1, 2019

The economy of D&D isn't scaled to properly account for a medieval economy, or at least that's not the first priority. The costs in a bunch of cases are scaled to PC income. So yeah, the cp to $ thing works to a point, but that $2500 alchemists fire ain't scaled as a general consumable, it's scaled so low level PCs aren't packing crates of that shizz every time they leave town.

Maxperson · Jun 1, 2019

Stalker0 said:
So you would allow fabricate to turn a lump of coal into diamond?

Forget the armor, this is the new fortune making scheme.

Of course not. First off, you can only create produced goods and diamonds are not produced. They are another form of raw good. Secondly, you can't use player knowledge for PCs who wouldn't have it. Even though diamonds are carbon, PCs wouldn't have that knowledge. You could take coal and make a coal statuette if you had proficiency in carving, or take a diamond and produced a cut diamond if you have proficiency in gem cutting tools, but you couldn't turn raw coal into a raw diamond, which you would have to do before cutting it.

Fanaelialae · Jun 1, 2019

Maxperson said:
But it's not completely gone. Gunpowder still exists and has since 1e. Sulfer exists as a spell component, and I think I've seen a few others as well. Chemistry exists in D&D, but not as an organized science since 1e. D&D 5e is also a common use of language edition, so if they call it a diamond, it's what we commonly think of as a diamond. A hunk of carbon that got compressed under tons of pressure for a very long period of time.

The laws of science are variable in D&D settings. Gunpowder, for example, doesn't function on Faerun. You need smokepowder, a magical substance that fills the same role (although I've read that jeweler's rouge will also work).

Diamonds might be compressed carbon. They could alternately be the crystallized essence of slain angels.

I think it's safer to say that real world science applies so long as the DM hasn't decided otherwise, regardless of whether or not the players are aware. It might be reasonable for a player to assume that their characters don't fly off into the void due to gravity, but it could be equally true that gravity doesn't exist in the setting and that the reason they don't fly off is that the world is flat, or because they live on the tip of a rocket that is in a state of constant acceleration.

Heck, given magic, you'd be hard pressed to come up with an explanation for why the various laws of science aren't merely strongly worded suggestions in a D&D universe. There are plenty of spells and other magic that seemingly contravene science as we understand it. Gargantuan dragons capable of flight, for example.

Maxperson · Jun 1, 2019

Fanaelialae said:
The laws of science are variable in D&D settings. Gunpowder, for example, doesn't function on Faerun. You need smokepowder, a magical substance that fills the same role (although I've read that jeweler's rouge will also work).

Diamonds might be compressed carbon. They could alternately be the crystallized essence of slain angels.

I think it's safer to say that real world science applies so long as the DM hasn't decided otherwise, regardless of whether or not the players are aware. It might be reasonable for a player to assume that their characters don't fly off into the void due to gravity, but it could be equally true that gravity doesn't exist in the setting and that the reason they don't fly off is that the world is flat, or because they live on the tip of a rocket that is in a state of constant acceleration.

Heck, given magic, you'd be hard pressed to come up with an explanation for why the various laws of science aren't merely strongly worded suggestions in a D&D universe. There are plenty of spells and other magic that seemingly contravene science as we understand it. Gargantuan dragons capable of flight, for example.

Yes, magic can change things, but absent that change they work more or less like the real world. Not exact, but close enough to not really matter. So without a specific change making diamonds out of angel poop, they will be compressed carbon. Gravity works similar to the real world, unless the gods created a flat world where gravity doesn't exist. That's how D&D has worked since basic.

Fanaelialae · Jun 1, 2019

Maxperson said:
Yes, magic can change things, but absent that change they work more or less like the real world. Not exact, but close enough to not really matter. So without a specific change making diamonds out of angel poop, they will be compressed carbon. Gravity works similar to the real world, unless the gods created a flat world where gravity doesn't exist. That's how D&D has worked since basic.

I mean, pretty much all fantasy settings start with the real world as a basis. What else could you even use as starting point of reference (apart from another setting that at some point derives from the real world)?

But my point is that you can't assume that a fantasy setting has the same rules as the real world. By and large, the point of a fantasy setting is to deviate from the real world in one or more ways.

Maxperson · Jun 1, 2019

Fanaelialae said:
I mean, pretty much all fantasy settings start with the real world as a basis. What else could you even use as starting point of reference (apart from another setting that at some point derives from the real world)?

But my point is that you can't assume that a fantasy setting has the same rules as the real world. By and large, the point of a fantasy setting is to deviate from the real world in one or more ways.

I mostly agree. My point is that absent a specific change, there's nothing else to assume but a real world basis. As you note, the real world is where all of the settings begin and then alter things from there.

S'mon · Jun 1, 2019

WaterRabbit said:
Also, your $400 to 1 GP is definitely an outlier as it is generally more a $1 to 1 GP ratio.

I don't think so. A cp is definitely more than a cent - chickens are 12 cp right?!

I generally go off 1 gp = £100, so 1 cp = £1. A mug of beer at the inn is 2 to 5 cp which is pretty cheap by London prices (£3 to £6+) but then we have tyrannical beer-taxing ruler to contend with.

Savevsdeath · Jun 1, 2019

I take the simple approach, i.e. the Eberron approach: 7th-level anything is rare, period. And people with that kind of power will be courted by all manner of factions who could use the services of such powerful individuals. Arbitrarily deciding that people just eschew magic and won't enjoy the benefits of having a powerful individual around is a cop-out that neuters PC's needlessly; if they're powerful, let them change the world, and let the world change around them in response. A wizard who can cast fabricate will be hired by people who need lots of weapons and armor made quickly, and there is no good reason why any given village might not await the annual visit from the local druid circle who will help enrich their crops for another year. In all cases, these are plot hooks - what happens when a rival nation makes that powerful wizard a better offer, or just plots to kidnap or assassinate him? What if the druids don't show up one year for reasons unknown?

Don't fear powerful magic-users or make their powers irrelevant; take them into account and use them.

Draegn · Jun 3, 2019

Savevsdeath said:
I take the simple approach, i.e. the Eberron approach: 7th-level anything is rare, period. And people with that kind of power will be courted by all manner of factions who could use the services of such powerful individuals. Arbitrarily deciding that people just eschew magic and won't enjoy the benefits of having a powerful individual around is a cop-out that neuters PC's needlessly; if they're powerful, let them change the world, and let the world change around them in response. A wizard who can cast fabricate will be hired by people who need lots of weapons and armor made quickly, and there is no good reason why any given village might not await the annual visit from the local druid circle who will help enrich their crops for another year. In all cases, these are plot hooks - what happens when a rival nation makes that powerful wizard a better offer, or just plots to kidnap or assassinate him? What if the druids don't show up one year for reasons unknown?

Don't fear powerful magic-users or make their powers irrelevant; take them into account and use them.

Also have consequences for using "powerful" magic. Eddings did this in his novels. The main character Garion creates a huge storm to stop a battle, after which his uncle has to travel hither to "reset" the proper weather patterns to avoid droughts, floods, etc....

Marian Torres · Jun 4, 2019

I'm new to D&D games, but I read this topic with interest. There is something to think about. Probably need to write an article in the blog.

D&D 5E How do you handle the "economy killing spells" in your game?

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Fanaelialae

Legend

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Fanaelialae

Legend

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

S'mon

Legend

Savevsdeath

First Post

Draegn

Explorer

Marian Torres

First Post

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