D&D 5E How do you handle the "economy killing spells" in your game?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
But isn't that is exactly the question? Probably the best test would be to have a group of players charged with defending a site and seeing what they come up. Because they are players they are limited to published spells and items. So "anti-invisibility" areas aren't something possible in the rules, but hallowed areas would be. Give them a budget and see what kind of defenses they can build. In my opinion, to build defenses to handle the types of threats represented in a normal game world is going to be cost prohibitive compared to the methods that are necessary to defeat them.

This is probably why they haven't released the mass combat rules yet. It would be interesting to try and build a "tower defense" game just using the published rules to this point. But I don't think the rules are really robust enough to handle this situation. Back in AD&D we did run similar types of tests and found that castles were generally useless against monstrous and magical threats.

They aren't spelled out in the rules, but the rules for creating spells and magic items ARE in the rules. It's inconceivable that anything the players can think of hasn't been tried hundreds, if not thousands of times in the thousands of years that magic and castles have been around. Countermeasures would have been created and be in widespread use by places as rich as cities and the nobility/royalty.

It's definitely much harder if you limit the players/NPCs to what spells and items are listed, though.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
This all can work, but only if you never venture too far into Tier 2 play. However, a small orc horde would completely wipeout any civilization you have as you are implying that the warrior in the army aren't even equivalent to guards in their competence. The problem is that once you allow for magical organizations like the Circle of 8, The Red Wizards of Thay, Twisted Rune, or even the Cowled Wizards of Athkatla it forces there to be more competent and more numerous skilled individuals in the setting.

Also, your $400 to 1 GP is definitely an outlier as it is generally more a $1 to 1 GP ratio. A single gold piece in your campaign has tremendous buying power. A single haul of gold from an ancient dungeon would definitely ruin any economy you had and kill any nation (much the way Spain fell into economic disaster).

I've always viewed silver as $1 and gold as $20. A holdover from 1e I suppose. 20 silver to a 1 gold. 2 electum($10) to a gold. 5 gold to a platinum($100). The denominations held up except for copper, which would be dimes instead of pennies.
 

Never try to compare value to the commodity price of raw gold/silver/copper. It's largely meaningless. If you want to compare monetary values, generally stick to basic goods like flour, salt, bread, etc.

I usually settle on about $50 per GP, $5 per SP, and $0.50 per CP.

If you look at trade goods, you can see things like flour at 2 CP/lb, or salt at 5 CP/lb. That would then translate to about $1 per pound of flour, or $2.50 per pound of salt. You can get it cheaper at a modern supermarket, but it's a reasonable approximation.

Lifestyle expenses start at 1 SP per day for squalid living conditions. That's about $5 for whatever food you can scrounge up, and no place to live. Modest is 1 GP per day. If you consider that $50, that gets you an apartment (~$20 per day = $600 per month) plus food and some other minor costs. In fact, it works out to about $20k per year in basic living expenses, which isn't unreasonable. Aristocratic is at least 10 GP per day, which would translate to about $200k per year in living expenses — the sort of spending you'd expect from someone extremely wealthy.

A rapier at 25 GP would be $1250, which is not unreasonable for a well-made sword, rather than just a display piece. Without modern machinery, it's going to be on the higher end anyway. A club is 1 SP — $5. I mean, it's a club. A quarterstaff is twice that, at 2 SP / $10. Most weapons are in the $500 - $1500 range, which sounds about right.

Your gambeson armor starts at 5 GP → $250. Imagine the cost of a large coat that's thick enough to stop a sword blow, and that feels in line. A chain shirt is 50 GP, so $2500. Starting to get expensive, but crafted armor is always going to be expensive. Plate mail that costs 1500 GP would be the equivalent of $75,000 — an expensive car, or a cheap house. The sort of cost that explains why only nobles usually could afford it.

A carriage ride between towns is 3 CP per mile, which would be $1.50 per mile. If I plug in a random Uber estimate, I get a cost of $1 per mile, so close enough.


Basically, most prices in the book make sense at this cost scale, though there's a few that don't, or have problems. Alchemist's fire, for example, is a one-use consumable where you're throwing about $2500 at an enemy for a tiny bit of fire damage. That's ludicrously expensive for something you might otherwise see as a commoner's substitute for a mage, in a low-magic setting. A book costs 25 GP / $1250. That's a reasonable price in a setting where every single book is hand-crafted, and even paper is rare and expensive (heck, paper is $10 per sheet and ink is $500 per bottle), but often doesn't fit with the relative commonality of books (such as libraries) in many settings. Crafted glass (such as a magnifying glass or spyglass) is also hideously expensive, at 100 GP - 1000 GP ($5000 - $50,000), but that's less surprising, since accurately crafted lenses are horribly difficult to make without modern machinery.

Of course that then leads to the question of, how much does magic affect the ability to make these things, and should that mean they should be cheaper? At the very least, paper should have a much higher demand in a world with wizards and spellbooks. Probably less so for crafted glasswork, as there aren't a whole lot of practical uses for such items (except maybe old wizards whose eyesight is going).


Summary: 1 GP = $50 is a reasonable scale, though it wouldn't hurt things much if you dropped it to, say $20, or raised it to $100. Some of the edge cases might get a bit more noticeable if you try converting from modern costs to game costs, but it's close enough that it doesn't really need to be fussed with.

Oofta said:
As far as the fabricate, I posted long ago that I saw a lot of issues, especially depending on level of technology and how you define "raw materials". Do you need high quality steel? Does it need to be properly hammered into plates or do you just need iron ore, a source of carbon and some other trace metals? I lean towards the former, which along with the expertise of how to make the armor (which takes a master armorer level of expertise) I just don't see it happening all that often.
I'd say yes, you need the raw materials, but no, the materials do not have to be in any particular shape. If you want to make steel plate mail, you need steel — not ore, or iron plus other stuff — but it could be ingots or plates or whatever other shape you wanted.

Basically, if you can describe what you're doing as "reshaping" (ie: trees to wooden bridge), it would work, but if it's "processing" (ie: ore to metal), it wouldn't. You need wool for clothing, for example, not a sheep.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Basically, if you can describe what you're doing as "reshaping" (ie: trees to wooden bridge), it would work, but if it's "processing" (ie: ore to metal), it wouldn't. You need wool for clothing, for example, not a sheep.

Definitely agree here, especially since there is no true notion of “chemistry” in dnd. There’s nothing that says that diamonds in dnd are “pressurized carbon”
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Definitely agree here, especially since there is no true notion of “chemistry” in dnd. There’s nothing that says that diamonds in dnd are “pressurized carbon”

That's not true. 1e had chemistry, physics, geology, etc. The sage table had them as areas of specialty. It got dropped off in later editions, but even then alchemy still persisted.
 

WaterRabbit

Explorer
Never try to compare value to the commodity price of raw gold/silver/copper. It's largely meaningless. If you want to compare monetary values, generally stick to basic goods like flour, salt, bread, etc.

I usually settle on about $50 per GP, $5 per SP, and $0.50 per CP.

I understand your approach and it is logical. However, if you tell your players $1 = 1 GP that immediately have a better grasp on how money works in the game.


They aren't spelled out in the rules, but the rules for creating spells and magic items ARE in the rules. It's inconceivable that anything the players can think of hasn't been tried hundreds, if not thousands of times in the thousands of years that magic and castles have been around. Countermeasures would have been created and be in widespread use by places as rich as cities and the nobility/royalty.

It's definitely much harder if you limit the players/NPCs to what spells and items are listed, though.

While I agree, limiting to what is published removes the concept of "dm cheating".
 

Oofta

Legend
I understand your approach and it is logical. However, if you tell your players $1 = 1 GP that immediately have a better grasp on how money works in the game.

I agree with telling people a rough equivalent, but even during happy hour a mug of ale costs more than 4 cents.

While I agree, limiting to what is published removes the concept of "dm cheating".

It's not DM cheating if you state up front that there are spells and rituals not available to PCs and that there may be magical protections on castles that would stop you from teleporting in to the king's bedchamber in the middle of the night. In any case, it's a pretty common fantasy trope that some cult is trying to cast a ritual to raise a dead god, summon a demon or some other nefarious deed. I don't see that as being much different than acknowledging that magic exists outside of what's been published in the books.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
My point exactly

But it's not completely gone. Gunpowder still exists and has since 1e. Sulfer exists as a spell component, and I think I've seen a few others as well. Chemistry exists in D&D, but not as an organized science since 1e. D&D 5e is also a common use of language edition, so if they call it a diamond, it's what we commonly think of as a diamond. A hunk of carbon that got compressed under tons of pressure for a very long period of time.
 

Stalker0

Legend
But it's not completely gone. Gunpowder still exists and has since 1e. Sulfer exists as a spell component, and I think I've seen a few others as well. Chemistry exists in D&D, but not as an organized science since 1e. D&D 5e is also a common use of language edition, so if they call it a diamond, it's what we commonly think of as a diamond. A hunk of carbon that got compressed under tons of pressure for a very long period of time.

So you would allow fabricate to turn a lump of coal into diamond?

Forget the armor, this is the new fortune making scheme.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top