I've seen more high-level play in 4e than every other edition combined. Epic level play happens, you can get to it - or skip to it - and when you're there, the system holds together. I ran a campaign starting as an Encounters season at 1st level, through to Epic that only stopped for RL exigencies (technically on hold, but a game on hold for year might as well be over), in about half 10 years it took me to get my AD&D campaign from 1st through 14th.People realistically are not going to get to epic level.
That's what a clone /is/. A copy. The point of PF was that 3.5 fans could keep playing a continuation of 3.5, not that they could play some "love letter to 3.5" or "fantasy 3.5 heartbreaker."A clone … doesn't need to be a perfect copy.
4e heroic begins closer to level 5 in 5e.
I've seen more high-level play in 4e than every other edition combined. Epic level play happens, you can get to it - or skip to it - and when you're there, the system holds together. I ran a campaign starting as an Encounters season at 1st level, through to Epic that only stopped for RL exigencies (technically on hold, but a game on hold for year might as well be over), in about half 10 years it took me to get my AD&D campaign from 1st through 14th.
That's what a clone /is/. A copy. The point of PF was that 3.5 fans could keep playing a continuation of 3.5, not that they could play some "love letter to 3.5" or "fantasy 3.5 heartbreaker."
OSRIC is not a compilation of playstyles, but a compilation of TSR era rules mechanics, cleverly mixed with SRD wording to evade copyright law.
If all you want is 'playstyle' you never needed to clone anything.
100% of 4e campaigns I've been in have at least reached 11th. One-offs & con games and encounter-seasons-long games are a different story - but many of those have just started & ended at Epic with no issues.Well as I said 90% of games do not get to level 11.
4e heroic begins closer to level 5 in 5e.
100% of 4e campaigns I've been in have at least reached 11th. One-offs & con games and encounter-seasons-long games are a different story - but many of those have just started & ended at Epic with no issues.
I know it's a truism & long-standing self-fulfilled prophecy that high-level D&D just isn't really a thing - it takes too long to get there, it doesn't work, the sweet spot is in the single digits, etc - but as in so many other ways, 4e was an exception.
Or more likely you're one of thev10%. I played 2E to level 19, 3E to 30.
High level has issues including 4E. 4E just had different problems instead of being outright broken it was slow, boring, grindy etc.
13th Age goe to 10, B/X is level 14 and it's more popular than BECMI.
4e heroic begins closer to level 5 in 5e.
Sure, but in 13th Age, anything about 7th level is Epic play. It works quite well for what it is. 7th level is the 4E equivelant of 21st Level and the 5E equivelant of 14th.
Throwing out numbers about what amount of campaigns get to X level/tier is sorta meaningless, cause I don't think any of us has actual data and our individual anecdotes mean...well, nothing
I ran 1e through 14th (one PC in that campaign even reached 18th). I played two long campaigns that started in 3.0, ended in 3.5 just as we hit 14th. It's /possible/ to play and D&D to high level, but the cracks become chasms, you spend much of your effort fixing and compensating and modding.Or more likely you're one of the 10%. I played 2E to level 19, 3E to 30.
stock complaints about 4e of any levelslow, boring, grindy etc.
The issues 4e had with very high level play were lack of quality published adventures and good DM advice for getting the mood & scale of the stories right. It had the same issues with Paragon until the DMG 2 came out.High level has issues including 4E. 4E just had different problems instead of being outright broken
Not saying no other game had that issue... just acknowledging it's an issue 4e actually did have at high level. One that could have been solved if it had been allowed to live a bit longer, instead of changing directions with Essentials after only 2 years.Hey the other D&D's don't have good higher level adventures either although a few are good level 10 to 14.