D&D 3E/3.5 The 4E We Didnt Get.

[Zardnaar]

I suspect fixing 3.0 would take less work than updating AD&D. I'm doing a little work on that now, but I'm only at the start and I haven't playtested anything. Right now it's comparing how 3e does things compared to earlier editions and trying to find a match in the 3e rules for stuff that was dropped (and often it was 2e that dropped things rather than 3e I'm finding.)

I've tried doing both fixing AD&D is easier.

Hell ascending ACs and B/X ability modifiers go a long way right there. Plug in 5E or tweak 4E skill system you're mist of the way there.

Fixing 3E basically requires a rewrite. Depending on what your goal is replacing the skill system and a unified numbers progression woukd be a good place to start.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

SWSE would have been a pretty good base to make a 4e some of which did make it into 4e.

I liked:

• no saving throws
• condition track
• talents and talent trees with prerequisite talents basically showed a way to tier martial abilities
• most of the classes were non magic (force) so showed a lot of variety in martial including leaders, etc.
• a little bit better multiclassing -- basically the classes acted more like generic shells for the talent trees that you could mix or match fairly well
• skill challenge explanation in one of the splats that was better than anything in 4e
• simplified skills with trained or not

I think it still had some of the bad parts of 3.5e IMO as well though:

• monsters built up like PCs
• bad CR and encounter building
• some fidly modifiers and rules
• still a little too character building vs play centric for me

etc

I'm glad we got 4e but would have liked to see a D&D version that tried to build on SWSE too though.

 

[cbwjm]

SWSE would have been a pretty good base to make a 4e some of which did make it into 4e.

I liked:

• no saving throws
• condition track
• talents and talent trees with prerequisite talents basically showed a way to tier martial abilities
• most of the classes were non magic (force) so showed a lot of variety in martial including leaders, etc.
• a little bit better multiclassing -- basically the classes acted more like generic shells for the talent trees that you could mix or match fairly well
• skill challenge explanation in one of the splats that was better than anything in 4e
• simplified skills with trained or not

I think it still had some of the bad parts of 3.5e IMO as well though:

• monsters built up like PCs
• bad CR and encounter building
• some fidly modifiers and rules
• still a little too character building vs play centric for me

etc

I'm glad we got 4e but would have liked to see a D&D version that tried to build on SWSE too though.

One cool thing with SWSE was that all the non jedi classes were non-magic, but all it took was a feat to unlock that magic. Really the only difference with the jedi was that they got force sensitive for free. Not having the magic system coupled to a class allowed for quite a bit of customisation.

 

[Leatherhead]

I loved the condition track from SWSE. I really wish it was mainlined.

 

[Orius]

I've tried doing both fixing AD&D is easier.

Hell ascending ACs and B/X ability modifiers go a long way right there. Plug in 5E or tweak 4E skill system you're mist of the way there.

Fixing 3E basically requires a rewrite. Depending on what your goal is replacing the skill system and a unified numbers progression woukd be a good place to start.

Well that's part of it right there. I don't have a problem with 3e's skill system. I want to use skills, and I prefer 3e to NWPs or 5e's approach.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I think Trailblazer from Bad Axe Games was a fair attempt at a "revised 3.5e". It made attempts at fixing monster math, and revamped all the classes. It also provided the ability to recover a significant amount of resources with shorter rests (5-15 minutes IIRC).

Another vote for Trailblazer by Benjamin Durbin. Available here:

DriveThruRPG

preview.drivethrurpg.com

I think however you intend to overhaul 3.X - and preferences will vary greatly in this regard - that this is an invaluable resource in understanding the math which underpins the edition.

 

[Zardnaar]

SWSE would have been a pretty good base to make a 4e some of which did make it into 4e.

I liked:

• no saving throws
• condition track
• talents and talent trees with prerequisite talents basically showed a way to tier martial abilities
• most of the classes were non magic (force) so showed a lot of variety in martial including leaders, etc.
• a little bit better multiclassing -- basically the classes acted more like generic shells for the talent trees that you could mix or match fairly well
• skill challenge explanation in one of the splats that was better than anything in 4e
• simplified skills with trained or not

I think it still had some of the bad parts of 3.5e IMO as well though:

• monsters built up like PCs
• bad CR and encounter building
• some fidly modifiers and rules
• still a little too character building vs play centric for me

etc

I'm glad we got 4e but would have liked to see a D&D version that tried to build on SWSE too though.

Where I'm leaning for my homebrew is SWSE/4E proficiency system, 5E monsters but said monsters have old school MR/SR stolen from D&D minis game circa 3.5.

Microfeats overhauled.