[5e Statblock] Please add "OR" or "AND" in the list of monster attacks

Travis Henry · May 25, 2019

CapnZapp said:
OR it could be he wasn't fully aware all the actions are connected by OR already

I'm aware of that, yet visually, it'd be more quickly grokable (for me) if there were, like, indentations and "ORs" (and "ANDs" for the various clauses of a Multiattack Action).
I'd I'd suspect that not a few new DMs are baffled.

Travis Henry · May 25, 2019

*double post*

Travis Henry · May 25, 2019

jasper said:
I think he means
Actions,

Yes, I mean Actions, not Attacks (per se). Thanks!

Travis Henry · May 25, 2019

Ovinomancer said:
I'm more interested in who the OP is intending to address with this request.

I'm free to address my post to anyone in the D&D community, including the current authors of D&D. Who cares if they read it? I understand this is not a WotC forum - as there are no WotC forums anymore. Maybe less persons would stumble if I titled the thread: "I write 'OR' in my statblocks...and I wish WotC did too"! haha

Travis Henry · May 25, 2019

Oofta said:
What can we help clear up the confusion? If we look at an adult black dragon we have

Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Any time you see the label "Multiattack" it's telling you that the monster can do all of those things listed (with appropriate "and's" and "or's" as necessary) as it's action on it's turn. It goes on to give details about the bites, claws and Frightful Presence. The Acid Breath is not part of the Multiattack so it can't be done on the same turn*.

*Unless of course the dragon has been Hasted or something similar which gives an extra action.

Thanks Oofta.

This is a good example. Here's the statblock again, cut-and-pasted as written:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.

Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.

Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.

Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

***
Look - Frightful Presence comes first in the Multiattack, but it is placed four rows down! Tail isn't even part of Multiattack, but it's listed third row down, before Frightful Presence! I'm sure there is some software-code style logic for the formatting, but, for me, I'd prefer to see something with nested indentations, bullet points, and "OR" and "AND." That's the gist of my OP.

Something like this:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
AND
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.
AND
Claw (2x). Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.

OR
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.
OR
Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

MonsterEnvy · May 25, 2019

Travis Henry said:
Thanks Oofta.

This is a good example. Here's the statblock again, cut-and-pasted as written:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.

Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.

Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.

Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

***
Look - Frightful Presence comes first in the Multiattack, but it is placed four rows down! Tail isn't even part of Multiattack, but it's listed third row down, before Frightful Presence! I'm sure there is some software-code style logic for the formatting, but, for me, I'd prefer to see something with nested indentations, bullet points, and "OR" and "AND." That's the gist of my OP.

Something like this:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
AND
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.
AND
Claw (2x). Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.
OR
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.
OR
Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

I vastly prefer the regular layout. The ORs are pointless as that is built in already. And the create will make attacks that are part of multiattack on their own sometimes.

(Also Frightful presence is only going to be used once most of the time)

Harzel · May 25, 2019

Travis Henry said:
Thanks Oofta.

This is a good example. Here's the statblock again, cut-and-pasted as written:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.

Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.

Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.

Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

***
Look - Frightful Presence comes first in the Multiattack, but it is placed four rows down! Tail isn't even part of Multiattack, but it's listed third row down, before Frightful Presence! I'm sure there is some software-code style logic for the formatting, but, for me, I'd prefer to see something with nested indentations, bullet points, and "OR" and "AND." That's the gist of my OP.

Something like this:

Actions
Multiattack. The dragon can use its Frightful Presence. It then makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Frightful Presence. Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
AND
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.
AND
Claw (2x). Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) slashing damage.
OR
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d8 + 6) bludgeoning damage.
OR
Acid Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales acid in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 18 Dexterity saving throw, taking 54 (12d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

Ok, good example because it clarifies things a bit. Perhaps due to your newness to 5e, it looks like there is a fundamental point that you have misunderstood. In this example, the Frightful Presence, Claw, and Bite actions need to be standalone action options in their own right. Your suggested formatting implies (at least to me) that they are usable only as part of the Multiattack action. The reason they need to be available as standalone actions is that there are instances in which either the rules or just logistics restrict the kind of action a creature may/can take. Examples include opportunity attacks, the extra action granted by Haste, the restriction imposed by Slow, and the possibility that opponents are out of range for some attacks.

It would be a huge waste of space to fully describe Frightful Presence, Claw, and Bite both as part of Multiattack and as standalones. I agree, though, that it might make more sense to list them first after Multiattack before others like Tail.

[5e Statblock] Please add "OR" or "AND" in the list of monster attacks

Travis Henry

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MonsterEnvy

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Harzel

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