Let's Talk About THAC0

Morrus · Jun 7, 2019

Goblyn said:
Yep, nothing to discuss here.

*queue 11 page thread*

To be fair, nobody has carefully explained to me that subtraction is really hard yet.

Fenris-77 · Jun 8, 2019

Well, this thread really isn't about math, is it? It's about two groups of old dudes telling each other to get off their lawn. I'll take the Statler and Waldorf approach every time.

Morrus · Jun 8, 2019

Fenris-77 said:
Well, this thread really isn't about math, is it? It's about two groups of old dudes telling each other to get off their lawn. I'll take the Statler and Waldorf approach every time.

Nobody gets to stay young. Some of us fake it as best we can.

Fenris-77 · Jun 8, 2019

The D&D crowd is certainly way different now than it was when I was in my teens, as far as the age range anyway. As is the Warhammer scene for that matter. That's actually a huge plus for me in both cases as I think the hobby is far more interesting, both the play and to post about, when that's the case. I've been a gamer for 30 years and I like having at some doodes my own age to trade the dozens with.

Slit518 · Jun 8, 2019

Thac0 - Let us say your character's Thac0 is 10.

Now, your target's Armor Class is -2.

You roll a 10 on the 1d20, you subtract 2 since the target has a negative armor class, thus giving you an 8 on your roll, you miss.

And, if I am not mistaken, Thac0 is a combination of proficiency, stat bonuses, and any magic on your character's items.

Where as in reverse, modern day, we roll 1d20, and want to get higher numbers.

We have our proficiency bonus, bonus from Strength or Dexterity, feats, enchantment bonus.

In today's world, if a target has a 20 armor class, and you have a +10 to hit from all of the above, you need a 10 or higher on the 1d20 roll to hit.

Yardiff · Jun 8, 2019

Huh??

Fenris-77 · Jun 8, 2019

Yeah, that's not really how THAC0 works. It does work with the sum total of your mods though, in that way it isn't any different than now. In your example if my THAC0 was 10 I'd need to roll a 12 to hit a -2 AC target.

TarionzCousin · Jun 8, 2019

Morrus said:
To be fair, nobody has carefully explained to me that subtraction is really hard yet.

Subtraction is really hard because... math.

Did that work? I tried. B-)

--

I loved THAC0 back in 2E. It made the game a little less complex, faster, and easier to play. Those are all good things in my book.

Hussar · Jun 8, 2019

Sacrosanct said:
/snip

Either way, since that info was on the character sheet, and the character sheets came out right after the DMG, it's clear that wasn't intended to be DM only information. I played 1e from 1981 to 2012 and never saw a single person not know what AC they hit when they rolled (unless they were brand new and learning the rules). Not saying it didn't happen, but I'm sure it is much more the exception rather than the rule.

Meh. I'll see your annecdote and call with mine. Pretending that your experience is universal is no different than me pretending mine is. I certainly had more than a few players who would simply call out their adjusted number over and over again, and not tell me what AC they hit.

Granted, I only played AD&D from about 1981 to 2000, but, hey, multiple countries and a couple of continents later, including players from lots of different countries, I'm not sure that I really buy your anecdotes.

Sacrosanct · Jun 8, 2019

Hussar said:
Meh. I'll see your annecdote and call with mine. Pretending that your experience is universal is no different than me pretending mine is. I certainly had more than a few players who would simply call out their adjusted number over and over again, and not tell me what AC they hit.

Granted, I only played AD&D from about 1981 to 2000, but, hey, multiple countries and a couple of continents later, including players from lots of different countries, I'm not sure that I really buy your anecdotes.

Not asking you to buy into my anecdotes. I’m asking you to look at objective facts, like the character sheets having that info for the players since at least 1980, possibly earlier.

If we ARE going to use anecdotes, at least mine is supported by the official tools we had available at the time, whereas your anecdote depends on ignoring said official material. After all, why would a player ask the DM what AC they hit unless they ignored the character sheets available at the time that did that for the player?