The Overkill Damage Fallacy

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Congrats on being soo special that you get away doing things the rest of us can't. Until the forum is updated the way I'm describing the block function is how it currently works. Once they fix the issue for the rest of us schmucks then you'll have a leg to stand on but as it stands blocking someone now blocks their access to your threads. So until forum is updated, please stop responding to me and to my threads.

I will stop responding to you (when you choose to that as well). But I will continue to respond to threads you happen to have made. If you don't like that, complain to the moderators. I think you will find you're incorrect. Take it up in the Meta forum if it's bothering you.

Also, people who access the forum using their cell phones and the app can reply to threads started by people who have blocked them. The flaw is corrected in that new system. It's just desktop stuff that hasn't been updated yet.

But again, I am happy to respect your wishes to not respond to you. You first though, since you're initiating this. You don't get to both initiate this issue, AND insist on the last word. It's one or the other :)
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I will stop responding to you (when you choose to that as well). But I will continue to respond to threads you happen to have made. If you don't like that, complain to the moderators. I think you will find you're incorrect. Take it up in the Meta forum if it's bothering you.

Also, people who access the forum using their cell phones and the app can reply to threads started by people who have blocked them. The flaw is corrected in that new system. It's just desktop stuff that hasn't been updated yet.

But again, I am happy to respect your wishes to not respond to you. You first though, since you're initiating this.

no means no
 


Nagol

Unimportant
1. My point remains no matter what happens in the other cases.

2. Some important info
The normal use cases are
1. When Hp of X mod 8 and Hp of X mod 4 are equivalent then PC 1 will require Y attacks and PC 2 will require 2Y attacks to defeat the enemy
2. When Hp of X mod 8 and hp of X mod 4 are not equivalent then PC 1 will require Y attacks and PC 2 will require 2Y-1 attacks.

The scenario you propose is a major outlier where Y = 2Y-1 (Y=1). So that scenario is definitely not the best use case.

It's worth noting that the larger hp something has the closer case 2 is to case 1 in results. As such, I think I picked a fairly representative case (and definitely more representative than the case you proposed).

Case 2 where Y = 2 or Y =3 would be a much better scenario. As it will have the impact you desire while being more reflective of all the all cases for scenario 2 where Y > 1.

Well, no.

So your point is you found a case where the same expected damage per round favours someone with a larger base damage but fewer attacks? OK, sure. If PC2 hits for N hp and PC1 hits for 2N hp, then critters with N + (1 - N-1) hp will fall more quickly to PC1. Since the case resolves down to critters have 2 hits to kill, PC1 inflicts a one hit per blow with 2 chances to hit and PC1 inflicts 2 hits with a single chance to hit.

When X mod 8 == X mod 4, PC1 requires Ceiling( X / 8 ) hits to kill and PC2 requires Ceiling( 2X / 8 ) hits to kill.

When X <= 4, both requires a single hit. PC1 is providing 8 - X overkill. PC2 is providing 4 - X overkill per blow. PC1 takes 5/3 rounds per kill. PC2 kills twice as quickly..
When 4 < X <= 8, PC1 kills with a single blow providing 8 - X overkill <-- note that the overkill is dwindling here. PC2 requires 2 blows and is providing 8 - X overkill. Note that PC2 overkill is now identical to PC1 and any advantage is lost. PC1 still kills every 5 / 3 rounds. For PC2, it takes about 5 swings (2.5 rounds) to have a 91% chance of killing an enemy.
When 8 < X <= 12, PC1 requires 2 blows (and now requires about 5 swings to kill an enemy 91% of the time -- thus 5 rounds) , but PC2 requires 3 (and now requires just over 7 swings to kill an enemy 91% of the time thus 4 rounds).

*ETA*
PC2 has about a equal chance (20-25% chance) to drop his enemy on the 3, 4, or 5th round with 6 + 7 adding up to about the same probability in that 91% window. So it's probably be better to estimate 5 rounds.
 
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Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Well yes. I don't think you even remember what my point was.

Then report it to the moderators and stop replying to him. It seems like an easy solution when the back and forth between the two of you isn't accomplishing anything.
 



FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
The case for PC1 and PC 2 vs enemy with 9 hp.

PC 1
Capture5.PNG

PC 2Capture6.PNG
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Heck even ignoring hp oddities, attacks against an enemy tend to disrupt their attacks against you... ie you might have better effective armor class against any enemy you are attacking. So someone making broad sweeping attacks with a chance of hitting multiple enemies would be better defended from those enemies too.

Basically enemies not threatened have a significant advantage. So you want to threaten everyone even if your multistrike is itself at a penalty to hit.

Has any edition of D&D ever done anything to model those sorts of things?
 

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