D&D General What is the Ranger to you?

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I think its telling that when Aragorn does magic even the herbalism one might associate with a nature magic Tolkien's writing is talking about Aragorns Kingship ... and the ability of nobility to bring out better traits in what they put their hands to... not his connectivity with the nature/world.
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
By this time is should be readily apparent to all of us WotC can't write "ranger" abilities. They don't have a clue is the only conclusion when these abilities allow you to trivialize or entirely skip the challenges you signed up for Ranger to focus on.

As for proficiencies, just about the only path forward I see is to split up Expertise to restrict Rogues to urban usage and give Expertise to the Ranger for use in rural environs.

Perhaps not very exciting but there really isn't more to Aragorns healing or tracking or persuasion than that in the context of D&D. You simply can't say Rangers should be the only ones doing that stuff - ANY high-level hero can do stuff like that. Expertise just nudges you towards a certain class.
 

It wasnt their personal race name it was a race name given them by others ... I do not see the difference honestly. If it was in more D&D style they would be a kind of half elf.
It's a descriptive title based on what they do, not who they are. It's occupational, like Bounders in the Shire. This is plainly apparent when you consider Faramir's Rangers of Ithilien. Some few citizens of Gondor are rangers, but not all.

Beren was a human nobleman again who was outlawed in the Silmarillion his Luthien his elfen lady did a sleep spell. Has some in common.
I very distinctly meant Beren. He does rather more than that.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It's a descriptive title based on what they do, not who they are. It's occupational, like Bounders in the Shire. This is plainly apparent when you consider Faramir's Rangers of Ithilien. Some few citizens of Gondor are rangers, but not all.
Sure maybe, and it's not like they arent also Dunedain blood lines

I am making that sound less like you convinced me than is true.... i think its an occupation with very strong bloodline associations.

I very distinctly meant Beren. He does rather more than that.
You are saying this human is doing spell casting... it has been literally dozens of years sinceI read the Silmarillion but damn I would have thought that would have stood out.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I think its telling that when Aragorn does magic even the herbalism one might associate with a nature magic Tolkien's writing is talking about Aragorns Kingship ... and the ability of nobility to bring out better traits in what they put their hands to... not his connectivity with the nature/world.

This right here is why I do not think it was occupation but rather blood-line that brought on the magical flavor of the Ranger. Ranger just isn't the source of "the magic"

And in a game with easy multiclassing... shrug
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
By this time is should be readily apparent to all of us WotC can't write "ranger" abilities. They don't have a clue is the only conclusion when these abilities allow you to trivialize or entirely skip the challenges you signed up for Ranger to focus on.

As for proficiencies, just about the only path forward I see is to split up Expertise to restrict Rogues to urban usage and give Expertise to the Ranger for use in rural environs.

Perhaps not very exciting but there really isn't more to Aragorns healing or tracking or persuasion than that in the context of D&D. You simply can't say Rangers should be the only ones doing that stuff - ANY high-level hero can do stuff like that. Expertise just nudges you towards a certain class.


Many of us seem to be playing in the esoteric and you are being so practical
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
By this time is should be readily apparent to all of us WotC can't write "ranger" abilities. They don't have a clue is the only conclusion when these abilities allow you to trivialize or entirely skip the challenges you signed up for Ranger to focus on.

In 4e there was a I want to call it adventure design paradigm expressed in Skill Challenges (and I think described explicitly in the DMG2 rather well). Let me see if I can present it. Make sure a worthwhile challenge is complex enough, and that rituals (or Martial Practices - basically the martial analog to those) are not sufficient to undermine anything but a fraction of it. In 4e those practices and rituals had a price so spending that price was an auto success on that fraction but only that fraction.

If the 5e ranger abilities are too broad and overwhelming for the whole of it that is problematic.

tldr maybe the ranger abilities might need a cost that goes across arenas the way healing surges did.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah. And it should be noted that Aragorn is hardly the only example of a woodsman-type hero in Tolkien's work. The rangers that he's lord of in the north spend all their time beating back monsters in the wilderness to protect civilization. As do many other ranger-type figures in the Silmarillion and expanded work - Beren, Barahir, Faramir, etc. None of them raise undead armies.

Sure, and it’s also important to recall that Tolkien isn’t the whole of Ranger class inspiration, and that it matters what folks expect *now*, and that tends to include magic, but not wizard-like magic. They surveyed and playtested for this.

The 5e Ranger isn’t unsatisfactory because it has magic, it’s unsatiafactory because it’s two main low level abilities are ribbons that require making choices, and it’s spellcasting feels weaker than even the 1/3 casters, because you know so few spells, so many of your useful spells are concentration, and the paladin is over there being mechanically similar enough that comparison is unavoidable.

It needs a balance fix. That’s all. And not even a major one, because it isn’t actually significantly behind other classes once your out of tier 1. Conceptually, the 5e Ranger is excellent.


None of them cast anything approaching a D&D spell ...
Neither do the actual wizards in the story.

Spells were a poor patch job for having no skill system
they could easily have had the same kind of rules as the rogue, but specific to survival instead of skullduggery. Instead, they had spells, because the concept was partly magical.

Faramir is a Nobleman leading armies I do not know how
he fought at a personal level but I bet it wouldn't have
been using magic missile or fire ball and a shield spell.

He was a Ranger, who could disappear into the background like an elf. “Like an elf” in Tolkien is magic in dnd.

No no one in Tolkien throws fireballs or magic missiles or has anything like the shield spell. Gandalf fights with weapons, and does very subtle magic, and he is the Wizard of the story.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
They should be reasonably competent in any terrain, and be exceptional in their primary environment, and that training should provide benefits wherever they are. So, plains rangers could be faster, forest rangers could be stealthier, mountain rangers could have climb speed and ignore certain types of difficult terrain, etc.

favored enemy should be a “study your enemy” benefit that requires no action when used against your favored enemy.

By the way I really do like a lot of these ideas.
 

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