Why RPGs are Failing


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Telperion

First Post
I would imagine that this topic has been obvious to any number of DMs / Players for a long time now.

On the other hand I keep losing players because my campaign leans heavily to the roleplay side, and doesn't really allow room for players who can't think, scheme and build something of their own from a generous pool of resources. I do seem to have four good players now, so that's enough for the purposes of this campaign.

The next one will most likely be lighter on the roleplay side and heavier on the rollplaying: 4 - 6 Knights (not all of them paladins) realize the source of their Faith is fading and must ride to distant lands to discover their true origins, refind their Faith and bring it back to their ailing city of Goodness (Mithril, on the continent of Ghelspad, if you want to know). Haven't really got any more on that. Its on the worktable, however.

I suppose it's all about balancing. I don't have the right mix, so if someone else has figured it out please let me know. Working on it, though...
 
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Haradim

Explorer
I think you are exaggerating just a tad, and what you see as failure in RPGs can also be easily associated to a simple matter of group playstyle.

I do, however, know that I'm too tired to really pursue this right now. Maybe tomorrow/later, if it hasn't turned into a 5 page arguement :)
 

Numion

First Post
mm's site said:
..is quite unrealistic, resulting in unrealistic actions and behaviors..

And making RPGs more realistic would solve this .. whatever problem you had with them to begin with?
 


Dark Jezter

First Post
Has anybody else noticed that female gamers and rollplaying vs. roleplaying seem to be the "hot" topics on ENWorld right now? I've seen a lot of posts devoted to each over the last week or so.
 

Old Fezziwig

What this book presupposes is -- maybe he didn't?
mythusmage said:
Combat is a prime example of this. Thinks to the initiative rules the pacing of actions is quite unrealistic, resulting in unrealistic actions and behaviors. Hate to tell you this folks, but when you're engaged in combat you don't get to break it off at your leisure. No moving that 5' step with no repercussions. Not only that, but combatants don't take turns. Full turns where one playing piece does everything available to that piece before any other piece can do anything at all.

I'm dropping this in over here (from your linked site...if it weren't late and I didn't have a term paper due before tomorrow morning I'd poke around and check it out), but I think you're off the mark a bit here. I'm not sure I can see any way to fix this part of the game, nor do I think it's a bug or anyone is claiming that D&D combat is realistic. If we wanted a realistic initiative system for the game, everyone would go at once and the people with the best reflexes would get to act first. I'm being silly, but I'm not sure where you're going with this, as you don't offer an alternative to what the game uses now. The current initiative system is really just a way of ordering a really chaotic thing (combat) into something that is fun and fair (in that everyone gets a turn) for the players. For me, at least, this is a good thing.

Best,
Nick
 
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diaglo

Adventurer
Dark Jezter said:
Has anybody else noticed that female gamers and rollplaying vs. roleplaying seem to be the "hot" topics on ENWorld right now? I've seen a lot of posts devoted to each over the last week or so.


not just ENWurld. it is that time of the cycle. WotC, dragonsfoot, yadda, yadda, yadda... all of them have the same topics at roughly the same time. give it 3 months.. they will be back again.


edit: as for the topic of the thread.... i agree with the basic argument.
 
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Hate to tell you this folks, but when you're engaged in combat you don't get to break it off at your leisure.

If you are winning you can.

Not only that, but combatants don't take turns.

Any RPG I've ever played handles combat with turns. It is assumed that the action is happening non stop, the only reason for turns is so the people who are playing the game can keep the actions straight.

This is one reason why I don't like the psionic feat "Up the Walls" which states that a character can run up and down a wall as long as he begins and ends his "turn" on the ground. It goes on to say that if the character "ends his turn" while on a vertical wall, he falls to the ground. Problem is, as you stated, the characters do not stop moving at the end of their turns. Although as a player your turn ends after a set number of actions, your character continues to move and be active just as if it were real life. That is a poorly written feat because it seems to imply that the character stops moving at the end of his turn (and therefore falls to the ground).

Full turns where one playing piece does everything available to that piece before any other piece can do anything at all.

Again, the assumption on the part of the players is supposed to be that the action is taking place nearly simultaneously and without the pauses between turns that we perceive at the table.

These are things that DnD and many other RPGs have had since their inception. I don't think it is causing them to "fail," if indeed they are.

*IF* RPGs are "failing" it is because of the influence of video games and live action games online. Which, by the way, I've been wondering lately why WoTC isn't working more on that angle.

I think they should create a Neverwinter Nights sort of D20 game... since technological integration is clearly in the future of all RPGs.

if the rules do not allow for an action, or an action by a particular playing piece, then that action cannot be performed

That was much more true of 1e and 2e. Remember the "Don't say no, determine difficulty" discussion in the 2e DMG? 3e is designed to cover just about every possible action you can dream up. If you can think of a reasonable action that isn't covered by the d20 rules, you should write up your own rules for it and sell it on RPGNow, because you've obviously identified a need that isn't being addressed.

Furthermore, that is far more true of video games that RPGs. If the programmer didn't anticipate you doing a particular action, you are not going to be able to do it, no matter how convincingly you argue with the game cartridge.

However, I do agree that there is too much of an attitude in 3e that the rules are the end-all and be-all of game adjudication. I'm the sort of DM who will let players attempt just about any hair-brained action they can think of, just because it is fun (and because I remember the "don't Say No" guidelines in the 2e DMG).
 

ThoughtBubble

First Post
Please tell me you're not serious?
Please tell me you're kidding?
At least tell me that you're well aware you're exaggerating.

(insert derrogitory phrase disguised as making a point here)

If your character is just a playing piece, it's either a choice made by the people involved, or a failure of both the DM and the players. Not the game. The game may ASSIST in such a thing, but it's not the cause. A poor craftsman blames his tools. Everyone has a responsibility to help with the game, and that includes playing the right game and the right style. Right, however, is up to definition.

And taking one to several steps back is in fact the most common and easiest to do defensive manuver available. It's not breaking off of combat, it's moving back. The difference should be noticable. Now, say, if you wanted to find out why chugging a potion doesn't take multiple rounds, then I might agree with you.

Anyway, your problems sound mostly like you're involved with a group of players who don't agree with your style. Either that or I've just successfully been trolled.

Anyway, I second the idea that video games are changing the way we look at RPGs, or rather, that they're bringing more of an audience into them, and as RPGs become closer to mainstream, people who dont 'get' what you're talking about will become more evident.

Anyway, if anyone would like to turn this into a relevant discussion about how to encourage people away from this sort of behavior, I'm up for it. But I'm really about sick of people saying "Everyone's playing the game wrong."

Guess I'm just stupid for looking at the topic.
 

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