Monsters - older edition more challenging?

toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
Been playing since AD&D and totally recognize every edition has pros and cons. Having run several years with 5E now, I find myself missing the puzzle-like nature of some, not all,older edition monsters as, nowadays, most monsters feel like large bags of hit points with few unique abilities. For example: golems. In prior editions, they were a puzzle in that they were immune to almost all magic, so to be solved, your fighter classes would shine and your casters would have to opt for creative use of spells (e.g. Grease the floor or Dig a hole). Now, a wizard with cantrips can ding one down.

Many monsters, especially demons, had spell-like abilities that could spice up encounters, especially the Teleportation game. Now, demons are largely like everything else: run in and do a multi-attack melee.

In summary, I understand the design to allow all players to contribute at all times, but I always believed D&D to be premised off every class having something unique to offer. There would, and should, be times that "we're going to need a rogue," or "this is a job for the fighter."

Has anyone examined the pros/cons of home-brewing iconic monsters to more resemble their original forms?
 

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There are products on the Guild that already do this: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/243120

I don't remember puzzle monsters as fondly as you. Wasting precious spell slots on effects that did nothing or made the situation worse. Feelings of frustration as the logical failed and you had to almost randomly start attempting things. Feeling ineffective because your magical sword lacked an appropriate plus or you didn't memorise the one exact spell required to counter the monster.

I like puzzle fights in theory, but I prefer to make them more unique. More related to a set-piece encounter, where I can tailor the fight and keep everyone engaged.
 

dave2008

Legend
Yes, many people have. In addition to @Jester David 's suggestion if DM'sGuild, there are several threads on these forums that can help. Some provide revised stats, or suggested revsions, or templates, or just advice on how to use terrain and tactics.

Here is my thread that you might find useful: 5e Hardcore Monster Manual I haven't updated it in a while, but I hope to get back to it soon.

There are also lots of interesting homebrew monsters on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/ I highly recommend the monster-a-day project. It has been going for over a year and has close 350 monsters now.
 

Also, a lot of players know about monsters' weaknesses now. Whether through years of playing or from twitch/podcast games or from just looking at the monster manual. At least for classic monsters. So those fights become less interesting when the party already knows immediately what to do.
I am a big fan of more dynamic fights, though. There are a lot of things you can do to make fights more interesting.
 

I think, if you wanted to bring some of that 1e feel back, you could outright just switch every instance of resistance to immunity. But you’d also have to bump up XP values for them as well.

If you are going to do so, though, I would talk to your players about it. Some might be on-board with tougher, OSR-style play, but others might not be.
 

sgtscott658

First Post
Agreed, a few of my players have complained about the weak encounters they have battled against, especially when I ran HotDQ series and Tomb of Annihilation. The nice thing about 5E is you can actually add some 1E rules without breaking the system. After trying to run ToA for a about four or five sessions, I finally just threw in the towel and decided to run my own stuff as well as modify my monsters to be 1E like. So I added MR, sneal attacks are NA vs undead and constructs plus more nifty 1E coolness.

I think, if you wanted to bring some of that 1e feel back, you could outright just switch every instance of resistance to immunity. But you’d also have to bump up XP values for them as well.

If you are going to do so, though, I would talk to your players about it. Some might be on-board with tougher, OSR-style play, but others might not be.
 

toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
There are products on the Guild that already do this: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/243120

I don't remember puzzle monsters as fondly as you. Wasting precious spell slots on effects that did nothing or made the situation worse. Feelings of frustration as the logical failed and you had to almost randomly start attempting things. Feeling ineffective because your magical sword lacked an appropriate plus or you didn't memorise the one exact spell required to counter the monster.

I like puzzle fights in theory, but I prefer to make them more unique. More related to a set-piece encounter, where I can tailor the fight and keep everyone engaged.

Ah, that Monster Talent supplement looks great!

One of the reviewers cites the Balor as an example of things that need to be fixed, wherein an iconic source of fear is now something you'd be embarrassed to put up against players as there'd be a letdown in defeating it. I'm of the same mindset. Any chance you (or someone on here) can vouch for it being worth the price tag (and have playtested it?)
 

Les Moore

Explorer
I've always contended the postulation that different monsters presented different challenges, as toucanbuzz mentioned in the OP. The whole point is to
force a party to use teamwork to defeat the given monster, and use what is available, in different ways. Seems like the whole point of such a wide selection
of beasts. So I agree.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Been playing since AD&D and totally recognize every edition has pros and cons. Having run several years with 5E now, I find myself missing the puzzle-like nature of some, not all,older edition monsters as, nowadays, most monsters feel like large bags of hit points with few unique abilities.
A lot of the time, classic D&D monsters were just small bags of hps that went down before they could do anything and presented no challenge. Thus the 'gotchya'/'puzzle' monsters you're talking about.

So, in a sense, you're missing the solution to a problem that is less prevalent this time around.
 

toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
[MENTION=8900]Tony Vargus[/MENTION].

Possible! Definitely don't need to go back to the days of 64 hit point dragons taken out by a 20d6 fireball. Just want to ensure the party still groans nervously when a vampire enters the fray, or a mindflayer is mentioned, or a golem charges...the classic "oh crap" stuff, rather than ho-hum.
 

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