Blades In The Dark

hawkeyefan

Legend
Thank you for sharing your experiences with BitD, [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION].

Blades in the Dark is definitely on my "to play" list. Reading through (most of) the book was eye-opening in terms of how its rules mechanics push and reinforce the narrative, themes, and play style. Reading about it and playing it, however, can be two different things. So it will require corralling my group together to play this game just so we can get a feel for it.

Yes, it's definitely different than reading it. I watched some of John Harper's online games with players to get a feel for it, and that was also enlightening. I agree that the approach itself is eye-opening for RPGs in general. But now that I've played it, the mechanics and theme of the game and its setting are designed so tightly that it's really impressive. I recommend it highly.
 

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So far, my players have been very cautious about getting into a scuffle, so already I'm seeing a change in mindset from their typical approach to RPGs. It's only a matter of time until violence is needed, and they know that, but until then, they're doing everything they can to avoid combat. Their Reputation is "Professional", so they see it as bad for business....which makes a lot of sense. I'm eager to see how a fight will play out, but willing to wait until it's absolutely necessary.

...

It's very collaborative and the players are digging how involved they can be in the fiction. It's taking them some adjusting, but as the game moves along, they're starting to see the differences more and more. Pretty soon, I expect them to start breaking out some Flashbacks. I'm interested to see how that comes up.

So just a couple thoughts right quick.

If they're from a background of careful, logistics-based, D&D hex/dungeon crawling where their decision-points are centered around creating "exposure-minimizing win conditions" for heroic characters, I would try to help them embrace the shift in Blades. It will invariably be revealed to them with more time playing, but they may enjoy the game more up front if they:

a) Internalize that this is a tale of bold, bad-intentioned scoundrels whose swashbuckling daring-do is fueled by one form of desperation/hedonism or another.

b) Between negotiating better Position for less Effect, Pushing Yourself, Devil's Bargain, Teamwork, Resistance, Indulging Your Vice, and the fact that gaining (and embracing) Trauma is one of the best parts of play, your players should understand that these are ROBUST scoundrels.

Now, things can certainly go pear-shaped and they need to beware of nasty Entanglements and biting off more than they can chew by making too many enemies or or enemies a few Tiers beyond their own. However, on the whole, the Scoundrels are tough, resilient dudes. And throwing caution to the wind, getting into all kinds of trouble, and finding out how these characters grow (and by grow I mean diminish), and how they respond to big time stakes and setbacks is the primary fun of the game.

Your players shouldn't go into this game expecting or trying for a happy ending with their characters. These adrenaline junkies live short, brutal, but exhilarating, lives in a corrupt system that is bent (and capable) of bringing them to heel.

Stress

Trauma

Heat


These are FUN! They aren't things to carefully avoid. Embrace them. If any of them are Magic the Gathering players, then they're familiar with the term "Health is a resource" (rather than something to desperately avoid losing). Look at Stress the same way (except you're gaining it rather than losing it).
 

Let me clarify one thing right quick.

I don't mean "don't try to win." I certainly don't mean that.

I just mean "try to win with reckless abandon."

The game will reward you for it (in several ways).
 

PrometheanVigil

First Post
b) Between negotiating better Position for less Effect, Pushing Yourself, Devil's Bargain, Teamwork, Resistance, Indulging Your Vice, and the fact that gaining (and embracing) Trauma is one of the best parts of play, your players should understand that these are ROBUST scoundrels.

Now, things can certainly go pear-shaped and they need to beware of nasty Entanglements and biting off more than they can chew by making too many enemies or or enemies a few Tiers beyond their own. However, on the whole, the Scoundrels are tough, resilient dudes. And throwing caution to the wind, getting into all kinds of trouble, and finding out how these characters grow (and by grow I mean diminish), and how they respond to big time stakes and setbacks is the primary fun of the game.

Sounds like real-life. Those with the strongest internal resolve almost always experience the greatest of successes this world has to offer. You just have to get through, going through things that would destroy lesser men, making hard decisions, knowing somehow and in some way that you will come out on the other side better than ever.

Even if you're a dirty, plotting, criminal scumbag as the game seems to play up, I think that's a pretty good life lesson to get from a game.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
So just a couple thoughts right quick.

If they're from a background of careful, logistics-based, D&D hex/dungeon crawling where their decision-points are centered around creating "exposure-minimizing win conditions" for heroic characters, I would try to help them embrace the shift in Blades. It will invariably be revealed to them with more time playing, but they may enjoy the game more up front if they:

a) Internalize that this is a tale of bold, bad-intentioned scoundrels whose swashbuckling daring-do is fueled by one form of desperation/hedonism or another.

b) Between negotiating better Position for less Effect, Pushing Yourself, Devil's Bargain, Teamwork, Resistance, Indulging Your Vice, and the fact that gaining (and embracing) Trauma is one of the best parts of play, your players should understand that these are ROBUST scoundrels.

Now, things can certainly go pear-shaped and they need to beware of nasty Entanglements and biting off more than they can chew by making too many enemies or or enemies a few Tiers beyond their own. However, on the whole, the Scoundrels are tough, resilient dudes. And throwing caution to the wind, getting into all kinds of trouble, and finding out how these characters grow (and by grow I mean diminish), and how they respond to big time stakes and setbacks is the primary fun of the game.

Your players shouldn't go into this game expecting or trying for a happy ending with their characters. These adrenaline junkies live short, brutal, but exhilarating, lives in a corrupt system that is bent (and capable) of bringing them to heel.

Stress

Trauma

Heat


These are FUN! They aren't things to carefully avoid. Embrace them. If any of them are Magic the Gathering players, then they're familiar with the term "Health is a resource" (rather than something to desperately avoid losing). Look at Stress the same way (except you're gaining it rather than losing it).
Play your character like a stolen car.
 

Aldarc

Legend
@Cthulhu42 are you still running your game? How has it been going?
Also, here I noticed that the you are not invoking the truename correctly, so your summoning spell may fail. I would suggest putting [MENTION=6792361]cthulhu42[/MENTION]'s name in a mention box directly rather than relying on the @ function.

Play your character like a stolen car.
I will keep this in mind for player instruction once I get the opportunity to run the game.

Yes, it's definitely different than reading it. I watched some of John Harper's online games with players to get a feel for it, and that was also enlightening. I agree that the approach itself is eye-opening for RPGs in general. But now that I've played it, the mechanics and theme of the game and its setting are designed so tightly that it's really impressive. I recommend it highly.
Were they the second series of videos he did? I seem to vaguely recall that his first set did not seem to reflect the published rules. For example, one player using their social status for an extra die on their roll, though I could be misremembering here or confusing a discussion for position rather than dice.
 


darkbard

Legend
Were they the second series of videos he did? I seem to vaguely recall that his first set did not seem to reflect the published rules. For example, one player using their social status for an extra die on their roll, though I could be misremembering here or confusing a discussion for position rather than dice.

The videos posted to Harper's Youtube channel span the development of the rules. That is, early episodes do include earlier iterations of rules still in the development (and playtest?) process, and one sees small changes as the videos go on. The players joke about this on occasion. (Caveat: I'm watching through these now as time permits and am currently in Episode 10 or so of 17.)

This series gives great insight, imo, into both the philosophy and the feel of the game, and so small rules details take a backseat to how the videos communicate the overall gameplay. The first episode or two have highlights and some tremendous character building aspects but are pretty slow. As the series continues, though, fast-paced action and startling developments that develop from what occurs in the fiction make for very compelling viewing (and I say this as one who has only recently, basically starting with this series, ever watched a stream of a game and still finds most streams dull on the whole).
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Let me clarify one thing right quick.

I don't mean "don't try to win." I certainly don't mean that.

I just mean "try to win with reckless abandon."

The game will reward you for it (in several ways).

Yes, this is definitely a shift, but the players do seem to be embracing it. At least, they are starting to!

In our first session, three of the players were reluctant to take any Stress. I brought it up a lot, but I think they feared it was some kind of diabolical GM trap. They kind of viewed it as the game's equivalent of Hit Points. The fourth player though, happily took Stress to Push Himself on an important roll, and twice to assist other characters with their rolls. After the first score, I was surprised to see another player really embrace the Stress during downtime. He's playing a Spider, which is a mastermind type of character (I know you're familiar, but for others who may not be), and he said he thinks his Stress is best used during downtime since he's not as strong a combatant or as stealthy as the other Crew members. His Downtime actions really helped the Crew, and that was good for the other players to see.

In our second session, they all took at least a bit of Stress in order to complete the Score. So I think they've already realized that it's a resource that must be put to use. Yes, there's risk in using the resource, but if you don't use it at all, you're going to have a hard time.

Neither Harm nor Resistance Rolls have come up yet because they've avoided the potential fights that have come up, so we'll see how they handle those elements, but it seems they're embracing the fact that they need to be risky in order to achieve what they want. I also haven't offered any Devil's Bargains yet....I wanted to get the basics down, and then I plan on adding other elements as we move along and the earlier ones are firmly grasped. I think I'll break out the Devil's Bargains next session.

We're going to begin with Downtime following their second Score, and there will likely be some Vice Indulgence going on, since they each have between 2 and 6 Stress. So that'll be interesting to see. They have a few significant Clocks in play, including a Long Term Project to sort of "reverse engineer" the new drug that they were given. They want to figure out how it's made so that their Leech can just start making it rather than having to rely on a supplier.

I can already see the tensions building. I kind of came up with the first two Scores to get the ball rolling, but they're already mentioning ideas for goals they have and the kinds of Scores they want to pull off. So I think I can ease off and let them take the lead, which is exactly what I was hoping for.

All in all, I think their adjustment in mindset from a more D&D style approach is happening quicker than I expected. They're embracing risk and they're starting to really run with the player-driven elements. Hopefully that all continues.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Also, here I noticed that the you are not invoking the truename correctly, so your summoning spell may fail. I would suggest putting @cthulhu42's name in a mention box directly rather than relying on the @ function.

Yeah, I messed that up. I think it was a capital letter that messed it up. I noticed it, and edited it, but it didn't seem to correct the issue. Thanks for the tip.

I will keep this in mind for player instruction once I get the opportunity to run the game.

Yeah, that's a bit of advice that John Harper attributed to one of his players, and which I've used to encourage my players to take chances. It's a pretty nice way to boil it all down for them.

Were they the second series of videos he did? I seem to vaguely recall that his first set did not seem to reflect the published rules. For example, one player using their social status for an extra die on their roll, though I could be misremembering here or confusing a discussion for position rather than dice.

The first series can be found on John Harper's youtube channel, and includes Sean Nittner, Stras Acimovic, and Adam Koebel. This was done during the lead up to the final version of the rules, so there are some mechanics or rules that come up that are no longer in place, or that have changed in the final version of the game. But, as @darkbard mentions, it's a minor concern for the most part. The major mechanics are essentially intact. And changes are actually discussed at points throughout the series, which is an interesting view on the design decisions and development of the rules. But yes, here and there something will come up that makes you scratch your head if you're familiar with the rules.

The second series you refer to, I believe, is the RollPlay: Blades series. I've watched a good chunk of this series as well, and this one seems to be working solely with the final version of the rules. This series is equally entertaining as the other, although perhaps a bit more serious and dark at times. I haven't watched either series in its entirety, though, so my impression may not apply in the long run. I'll add that I'm not a big one for watching streamed games....I've never been able to sit through an entire episode of Critical Role, for example, and most of my online viewing of streams has been more about seeing a system in play rather than for entertainment purposes. But I think I'll actually watch the rest of both of these series...so I think that says something.

Edited to add links for those interested. Both games are GMed by the author, John Harper, and both are very good. Here they are:

First Series: The Six Towers Gang/The Bloodletters
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQQW3Ew6DKsN0-Iv7n7144RbqKKRneqHH

Second Series: The Last Word
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-oTJHKXHicTtCC4rgmFSfZSSQsZmENAz
 
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