FormerlyHemlock
Hero
As a slight tangent:
Champions. They tend not to be exciting because (1) their 10th level feature (extra Fighting Style) is only half of a normal 1st level feature (Fighting Style + Second Wind), (2) their 7th level feature (Remarkable Athlete) is irrelevant for any skill you already have proficiency in (Athletics), and (3) their 3rd level feature is merely a 5%ish damage boost, though slightly better if you have something (GWM) that triggers more than just damage on a crit.
None of the Champion's features are really exciting, whereas in contrast the Battlemaster gets exciting options at 3rd level (and meh stuff for 7th and 10th) and the Eldritch Knight gets a semi-decent thing at 3rd level (a first level spell slot and some spells) which scales all the way up to 4/3 spell slots by 10th level, plus War Magic at 7th level for False Fetters (a.k.a. "Booming Blade", a stupid name)/Greenflame Blade.
Proposed fix:
Make Remarkable Athlete exciting by allowing it to stack with proficiency. It's like half-Expertise in all physical-related skills that you already have proficiency in, or half-proficiency otherwise. That would make Champions about as good overall as Valor Bards at being the Strongest Man In The World: a 12th level Valor Bard with max Strength gets +13 to Athletics checks (with possible advantage from self-buffing Enhance Ability) to knock enemies prone, but a Champion gets +11 and 50% more attempts, plus can more easily afford Shield Master for another attempts.
My powergamer instincts say this would be sufficient to make me consider occasionally playing a Champion instead of an Eldritch Knight, when it fit the character concept, even though I'd be losing out on Absorb Elements and Shield and leaving one full PC's concentration on the table with no way to use it (barring multiclassing).
One potential thing to watch out for: Champion/Rogue multiclass would technically stack Remarkable Athlete with Expertise in a way similar to how Banneret's persuasion doubling stacks with Expertise. You might or might not view this as a problem but it's something to be aware of if you adopt this rule. I'd probably just allow it on the grounds that if a Rogue invests 7 levels in Champion just to go from +17 to +20 he deserves to have that extra +3, i.e. Expertise dominates Remarkable Athlete already.
Champions. They tend not to be exciting because (1) their 10th level feature (extra Fighting Style) is only half of a normal 1st level feature (Fighting Style + Second Wind), (2) their 7th level feature (Remarkable Athlete) is irrelevant for any skill you already have proficiency in (Athletics), and (3) their 3rd level feature is merely a 5%ish damage boost, though slightly better if you have something (GWM) that triggers more than just damage on a crit.
None of the Champion's features are really exciting, whereas in contrast the Battlemaster gets exciting options at 3rd level (and meh stuff for 7th and 10th) and the Eldritch Knight gets a semi-decent thing at 3rd level (a first level spell slot and some spells) which scales all the way up to 4/3 spell slots by 10th level, plus War Magic at 7th level for False Fetters (a.k.a. "Booming Blade", a stupid name)/Greenflame Blade.
Proposed fix:
Make Remarkable Athlete exciting by allowing it to stack with proficiency. It's like half-Expertise in all physical-related skills that you already have proficiency in, or half-proficiency otherwise. That would make Champions about as good overall as Valor Bards at being the Strongest Man In The World: a 12th level Valor Bard with max Strength gets +13 to Athletics checks (with possible advantage from self-buffing Enhance Ability) to knock enemies prone, but a Champion gets +11 and 50% more attempts, plus can more easily afford Shield Master for another attempts.
My powergamer instincts say this would be sufficient to make me consider occasionally playing a Champion instead of an Eldritch Knight, when it fit the character concept, even though I'd be losing out on Absorb Elements and Shield and leaving one full PC's concentration on the table with no way to use it (barring multiclassing).
One potential thing to watch out for: Champion/Rogue multiclass would technically stack Remarkable Athlete with Expertise in a way similar to how Banneret's persuasion doubling stacks with Expertise. You might or might not view this as a problem but it's something to be aware of if you adopt this rule. I'd probably just allow it on the grounds that if a Rogue invests 7 levels in Champion just to go from +17 to +20 he deserves to have that extra +3, i.e. Expertise dominates Remarkable Athlete already.
