Some folks have been less than happy about the inclusion of the Goblin in Pathfinder's 2nd Edition core ancestry lineup. Designer Jason Bulmahn offered some comment, while Vic Wertz comments on the physical size and weight of the playtest products due in August.
Concerning goblins and how they fit in Golarion: Times change and so do people's opinions. Goblins as PCs have been a part of our world since the first "We Be Goblins" adventure. Many of the comments here echo those from back during the launch of 3.0 when Half-Orcs returned to the game as a player choice. There was a lot of conflict at first, but the tone of them shifted over time.
We always knew this would be a bit controversial and that there were some who would loudly proclaim "not at my table" and I get that. It's your table and your game after all. We are moving forward, trying to allow players to explore these characters, their culture, and their viewpoint. We are hoping to give you plenty of reasons, both mechanically and story-driven, to allow goblins in your game.
Bulmahn also addressed some of the complaints being made:
I want to add a few notes to the discussion.
1. NO decision in this game is final. We have ordered art, its true, but that does not mean that anything is set in stone. We playtest because we want your feedback, we want your ideas, and yes, we want your criticism. Anyone who played through the Alpha and Beta of the first version knows that the comments made significant changes to the game... the fighter got reworked from the ground up, the skill system got replaced. We take playtesting very seriously and we will be incorporating the feedback the surveys and these boards when making our final decisions. This includes feedback on the goblin.
2. That said, these previews are just that. Previews. We are still in the process of finalizing the book right now (he says with the ancestry chapter open right now). We do not collecting data at this point to help inform our decisions. There will be a time for that once the playtest begins. This is not me trying to squash comments, I just want to manage expectations.
3. There is more to the shift in goblins that I can honestly talk about here. Some of it would be a spoiler for things that are still in the planning phases, making them way to premature to talk about. Even if I could, I would not want to ruin the reveals.
4. Finally, there have been a lot of comments here about more appropriate ancestries to add to the game, and from the perspective of what would make an easier player character addition, you are absolutely right. Goblins are a bit of a challenge, but of all the creatures in the game, there is none that is more iconic to our world, our game, than they are. This is not a marketing ploy (I know, because I made the argument for their inclusion), this is us looking at the world that we have made and picking the thing that most exemplifies us. Giving it a lift in prominence is going to require some work, and some changes, but it is another step in making this game, this world, this amazing thing that all of you have helped us make, truly ours.
I get that not everyone will agree, but I hope that you can give us the chance to show you what we've got in store.
He went on to comment:
We have never said that there would be some magical event that changed everyone's opinions of goblins overnight. In fact, we expect that some areas might not be too welcoming of them, even after any events that might occur to change some perspective on them.
And here is the thing...
I think a slower shift is good. I think that playing a character trying to find redemption in a world that doesn't trust them is a story worth telling. That is part of the reason we are doing this. We don't want to ruin our goblins, making them something they are not, but we do want to make them more than what they are. Giving them room for mischief, while still allowing them the space to be a hero.
That change is not going to happen overnight. Its not going to happen by decree. The best we can do with this story, is give you the tools to make it part of your game, your world. As with everything else we make, whether or not you decide to use it, is up to you.
Vic Wertz confirms that goblins are definitely in:
Goblins will be an ancestry in the Playtest Rulebook; that much we are committed to.
We are going to ask for your feedback after playing with them during the playtest, and that feedback will contribute to how, when, and where they are presented in the Second Edition rule system.
Concerning goblins and how they fit in Golarion: Times change and so do people's opinions. Goblins as PCs have been a part of our world since the first "We Be Goblins" adventure. Many of the comments here echo those from back during the launch of 3.0 when Half-Orcs returned to the game as a player choice. There was a lot of conflict at first, but the tone of them shifted over time.
We always knew this would be a bit controversial and that there were some who would loudly proclaim "not at my table" and I get that. It's your table and your game after all. We are moving forward, trying to allow players to explore these characters, their culture, and their viewpoint. We are hoping to give you plenty of reasons, both mechanically and story-driven, to allow goblins in your game.
Bulmahn also addressed some of the complaints being made:
I want to add a few notes to the discussion.
1. NO decision in this game is final. We have ordered art, its true, but that does not mean that anything is set in stone. We playtest because we want your feedback, we want your ideas, and yes, we want your criticism. Anyone who played through the Alpha and Beta of the first version knows that the comments made significant changes to the game... the fighter got reworked from the ground up, the skill system got replaced. We take playtesting very seriously and we will be incorporating the feedback the surveys and these boards when making our final decisions. This includes feedback on the goblin.
2. That said, these previews are just that. Previews. We are still in the process of finalizing the book right now (he says with the ancestry chapter open right now). We do not collecting data at this point to help inform our decisions. There will be a time for that once the playtest begins. This is not me trying to squash comments, I just want to manage expectations.
3. There is more to the shift in goblins that I can honestly talk about here. Some of it would be a spoiler for things that are still in the planning phases, making them way to premature to talk about. Even if I could, I would not want to ruin the reveals.
4. Finally, there have been a lot of comments here about more appropriate ancestries to add to the game, and from the perspective of what would make an easier player character addition, you are absolutely right. Goblins are a bit of a challenge, but of all the creatures in the game, there is none that is more iconic to our world, our game, than they are. This is not a marketing ploy (I know, because I made the argument for their inclusion), this is us looking at the world that we have made and picking the thing that most exemplifies us. Giving it a lift in prominence is going to require some work, and some changes, but it is another step in making this game, this world, this amazing thing that all of you have helped us make, truly ours.
I get that not everyone will agree, but I hope that you can give us the chance to show you what we've got in store.
He went on to comment:
We have never said that there would be some magical event that changed everyone's opinions of goblins overnight. In fact, we expect that some areas might not be too welcoming of them, even after any events that might occur to change some perspective on them.
And here is the thing...
I think a slower shift is good. I think that playing a character trying to find redemption in a world that doesn't trust them is a story worth telling. That is part of the reason we are doing this. We don't want to ruin our goblins, making them something they are not, but we do want to make them more than what they are. Giving them room for mischief, while still allowing them the space to be a hero.
That change is not going to happen overnight. Its not going to happen by decree. The best we can do with this story, is give you the tools to make it part of your game, your world. As with everything else we make, whether or not you decide to use it, is up to you.
Vic Wertz confirms that goblins are definitely in:
Goblins will be an ancestry in the Playtest Rulebook; that much we are committed to.
We are going to ask for your feedback after playing with them during the playtest, and that feedback will contribute to how, when, and where they are presented in the Second Edition rule system.
- Vic Wertz talks about the physical playtest products:
- Book size -- "Page size for the adventure and all 3 editions of the Playtest Rulebook are our standard size (approximately 8.5"x11")."
- Flip-mat scale -- "The product image is a mockup using existing art, since the all-new maps are not ready yet. And I can guarantee you that we're not going to change the game in a way that makes you buy all new maps and minis. Flip-Mats will continue to be 1":5' scale."
- Rulebook page count -- "The Playtest Rulebook is 416 pages."
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