UA: New Race Options, Eladrin and Gith

Remathilis said:

3.) Now, I'm confused on how you plan to implement "elven chain" in the game. It would have to be a mundane armor (as in, non-magical and purchasable) otherwise it would be a useless feature for a majority of campaigns (tantamount to giving dragonborn proficiency in "holy avengers"). So we are going to add a new "light" armor one point better than studded leather. Which is fine, but also keep in mind there is no reason why anyone else proficient in light armor (fighters, rangers, paladins, barbarians, rogues, warlocks, clerics, bards, and mountain dwarves(!) ) couldn't use it either; in fact it would be bar-none the best armor for rogues, bards, warlocks and rangers. Unless you are going to come up with some bullstone reason why nobody but elves can wear it and how no one can just kill and elf wearing it and take his armor. (esp lithe races like half-elves, tritons, or tabaxi). Of course, being mundane, anyone could theoretically purchase it (since its a powerful light armor that could rival plate, 700-1,000 gp is a good amount).

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I see the capacity to benefit from High Elven Chain as requiring specific proficiency. ‘Elven Armored’ could even be a half feat. Anyone who takes this feat is mastering the High Elf fighting style. Maybe the feat grants the use of the longsword with finesse and casting focus as the other half of the feat.

But the High Elf grows up in such armor, and gets it as a cultural feature without necessarily gaining proficiency with other kinds of light armor. It reminds me of the horseback cultures that grow up in the saddle. Or kids today who grow up with technology.

If necessary, it is even possible that the full use of High Elven Armor is in fact a subtle form of magic. Maybe able to employ any kind of chain. But for now, I like the flavor of the especially fine and supple Elven Chain, and its use in a distinctive Dexterity fighting style matches well enough with the D&D tradition.

Remathilis said:

Ultimately, your "fix" isn't much better than the original race; you upped their Int by a point and gave them essentially rapier proficiency and proficiency in a single light armor (which is bound to be expensive anyway), while removing one of the best skill proficiency in the game (Perception) and fixing their bonus language to a mostly useless one (considering how they could pick, draconic, orc, abyssal, goblin or a dozen other more useful ones than Sylvan).

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It might be, the High Elf balance can keep the Perception proficiency. Tho, perhaps an Intelligence skill makes more sense. Maybe Arcana, plus the ability to use it to detect the presence of magic.

If players feel the flavor of the Perception skill is important for the High Elf to have, I can live with it. But personally, I dont mind it being a Wood Elf thing.



Edit.

Actually, granting the Wood Elf the Perception Wisdom skill and the High Elf the Investigation Intelligence skill, seems like an easy solution. Perception is better, but Investigation is useful.



Together, the light Elven Chain (only one point better than Studded) and the finesse Longsword (same as Rapier), lack a significant increase in power. But their synergy with Dexterity is valuable, and helps implement the flavor of a precise-moving race.

Yaarel said:

I see the capacity to benefit from High Elven Chain as requiring specific proficiency. ‘Elven Armored’ could even be a half feat. Anyone who takes this feat is mastering the High Elf fighting style. Maybe the feat grants the use of the longsword with finesse and casting focus as the other half of the feat.

But the High Elf grows up in such armor, and gets it as a cultural feature without necessarily gaining proficiency with other kinds of light armor. It reminds me of the horseback cultures that grow up in the saddle. Or kids today who grow up with technology.

If necessary, it is even possible that the full use of High Elven Armor is in fact a subtle form of magic. Maybe able to employ any kind of chain. But for now, I like the flavor of the especially fine and supple Elven Chain, and its use in a distinctive Dexterity fighting style matches well enough with the D&D tradition.

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Again, we're talking about an armor that stats are pretty much this, right?

Elven Chain
Type: Light amor
Cost: 750-1,500 gp
AC: 13 + Dex modifier
Strength --
Stealth --
Weight: 10-20 lbs

I'm not seeing why that would need a special proficiency, especially considering Dwarven Spiked Leather (SCAG) doesn't. (You can wear it if you are proficient in medium armor, but don't get the attack ability with it unless you're a battlerager). Anyone proficient in light should be able to get it. You can flavor it all you want with elven tradition and subtle magics, but in the end its just a new light armor and there is no reason why other races couldn't wear it as long as they too are proficient in light armor.

I'm not saying its a bad addition to the game, but there is no reason that anyone else proficient in light armor can't use it as well, except for "its elven". And honestly, I don't want to return to the era of Mein Alf having all the best toys again.

Yaarel said:

Mechanically, there is no difference between the finesse rapier and the finesse longsword, except that the finesse longsword can be used versatilely with both hands if sacrificing the use of a shield. Which also feels appropriate to the high Dexterity Elf.

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Thats actually not a bad idea.

That would allow me to get rid of some of the special elven weapons I customized.

Remathilis said:

Again, we're talking about an armor that stats are pretty much this, right?

Elven Chain
Type: Light armor
Cost: 750-1,500 gp
AC: 13 + Dex modifier
Strength --
Stealth --
Weight: 10-20 lbs

I'm not seeing why that would need a special proficiency, especially considering Dwarven Spiked Leather (SCAG) doesn't. (You can wear it if you are proficient in medium armor, but don't get the attack ability with it unless you're a battlerager). Anyone proficient in light should be able to get it. You can flavor it all you want with elven tradition and subtle magics, but in the end its just a new light armor and there is no reason why other races couldn't wear it as long as they too are proficient in light armor.

I'm not saying its a bad addition to the game, but there is no reason that anyone else proficient in light armor can't use it as well, except for "its elven".

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The way I am currently looking at it, the Elven Chain is a cultural feature − so it is ok for Non-High-Elves to access Elven Chain if they access the High Elf culture to learn its fighting style.

In other words, I am looking at the Elven Chain as in the category of an ‘exotic’ armor, that requires a special proficiency. Similarly, light armor proficiency fails to grant medium armor proficiency. The Elven Chain is neither normal light armor, nor is it medium armor. So it requires its own kind of proficiency. The armor is metal, but its suppleness makes it flimsy, and normally less useful, unless mastering a special fighting style that is fast enough and precise enough to take advantage of its properties, maneuvering to make weapons glance across rather than achieve impact. So, the proficiency represents the knowledge of a special fighting style that emphasizes high Dexterity techniques.

The question is, does the Fighter class *automatically* know all ‘exotic’ weapons and armors? For now, this approach says, no.

If an ‘exotic’ category feels to much like a feat tax, then a door that is better to not open, there are other ways to handle it. One idea is to simply move the chain shirt (but not the full chain suit) into the Light Armor category allowing full Dex, and be done with it. Similarly, the plate breastplate (but not the full plate suit) is able to stay int the Medium Armor category.

Alternatively, the way that the High Elf uses chain is a kind of magic, that a character must learn, maybe a kind of ritual. But the High Elf gets this as a cultural feature, in a way that is always on.


Even this. ‘Elven Chain’ is nothing more than a reflavoring of the Mage Armor spell, using (and transmuting) normal Chain armor as the material component of the spell. Thus it is equivalent to a 1st level spell, one that lasts for 8 hours anyways, and remains balanced if it is ‘always on’ for the High Elf.

Remathilis said:

And honestly, I don't want to return to the era of [the Elf race] having all the best toys again.

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The Elf is an important, maybe essential, element of the D&D tradition. I doubt D&D can even feel like D&D without the Elf. The options for it must be solid.

Fortunately, D&D has always included different kinds of Elf, so it is easy to make each kind different from the other, in a way that helps contain each kind.

At least for the High Elf, being good at both Dexterity fighting and being good at Intelligence wizardry, need to translate into the 5e system in a way that is fun and satisfying.

If the High Elf gains +2 Intelligence and Dexterity-friendly Elven Chain, then it becomes a solid choice for a pure Wizard. The Wizard has low hit points and access to good armor is nice.

Maybe it is best to translate Elven Chain into 5e as the Mage Armor spell as a High Elf feature it that is always on, and that the High Elf version of this spell can make it appear as if shimmering fine supple chain armor, especially when engaging battle.

Elven chain is already a solid choice for a pure wizard. They can use it without requiring proficiency and it provides an AC of 14 + 2 dex (maximum). Not every elf wizard will have a dex higher than 14 as, assuming point buy, some might want to spread those ability points around to other stats. This also means that they don't need to spend a spell slot on mage armour every day or worry about a dispel magic stripping away their defences.

What I think I would like to see, is bladesinging working with elven chain. Currently, you can only use the bladesong in light or no armour. It might be something that I would houserule if it ever came up.

[MENTION=7635]Remathilis[/MENTION]

So far, something like the following.



High Elf
+2 Dexterity
+2 Intelligence
Investigation skill
Darkvision
Trance
Languages: Elven, Sylvan, and Common
Cantrip
Mage Armor spell (permanent)
High Elf Weapon Training (longsword proficiency, treat as finesse and spell focus)

Yaarel said:

Maybe it is best to translate Elven Chain into 5e as the Mage Armor spell as a High Elf feature it that is always on, and that the High Elf version of this spell can make it appear as if shimmering fine supple chain armor, especially when engaging battle.

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Giving High Elves mage armor at will is certainly cleaner than creating a new special category of armor. Not sure how balanced, but cleaner.

Remathilis said:

Giving High Elves mage armor at will is certainly cleaner than creating a new special category of armor. Not sure how balanced, but cleaner.

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Mage Armor seems balanced as a feature. As noted, it is only one point higher than Studded and Half Plate, and requires deep opportunity cost, to invest fully in Dexterity to make it so. Even the normal 1st-level spell endures for 8 hours. No one has complained about this virtual ‘always on’ being too powerful, and at high level, the extra 1st-level slot becomes negligible.

If for some reason it seems unbalanced in comparison to other races and subraces, I personally would be comfortable removing Darkvision, especially when the cantrip can be used for Light or Dancing Lights, if desirable. But Darkvision has its own kind of situationality to its usefulness, and it is probably ok to keep it.

If removing Darkvision, maybe flavor Mage Armor as something like this.



Elven Armor: You gain permanently the effect of the Mage Armor spell. Additionally, as part of any action, you can make this armor appear as a supple chain armor or as invisible force. Either way, you can make the force radiate an aura of soft white light. The force as chain armor appears elegant. You decide the armor's shape, colors, and decor, and may include any heraldry of your families and groups. As aura, the force gives illumination equivalent to a torch, and within it you appear as if miraculously clean and well groomed.



Edit.

On second thought, I would rather leave the luminous aura for the Fey Eladrin, and the glamorous well groomed look for their Charisma.



As such, the High Elf Mage Armor can appear as either a chain armor or as an invisible force. Whether the Darkvision is available or not, the cantrip can be one that generates light if necessary.