Advice: A less hectic workday for my D&D characters

Tony Vargas · May 1, 2018

iserith said:
Before or after the challenge, deciding on whether and when to rest does the same. If you're okay with player decisions modifying difficulty in the challenge (and why wouldn't you be?), then in my opinion it is nonsensical to view rests differently.

This is an interesting take because it speaks directly (and only) to one half of the issue: encounter balance and how it varies with the infamous 5MWD or any other deviations from the expected pacing. Inevitably a party will be better able to take on encounter fully-rested, and less so when tapped out, but to what degree and in what proportion, and how predictable will the difference be to the GM designing that encounter?
Whatever the answer to those questions, though, it's a given that player decision are going to influence encounter difficulty. Even if pacing is locked in, resource management still comes into it: they can nova early, or hoard resources to make a later encounter easier.

The other half, of course, is class balance.

iserith · May 1, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
This is an interesting take because it speaks directly (and only) to one half of the issue: encounter balance and how it varies with the infamous 5MWD or any other deviations from the expected pacing. Inevitably a party will be better able to take on encounter fully-rested, and less so when tapped out, but to what degree and in what proportion, and how predictable will the difference be to the GM designing that encounter?
Whatever the answer to those questions, though, it's a given that player decision are going to influence encounter difficulty. Even if pacing is locked in, resource management still comes into it: they can nova early, or hoard resources to make a later encounter easier.

The other half, of course, is class balance.

I think such a focus on encounter and class balance is really better suited to a previous edition of the game.

smbakeresq · May 1, 2018

HorusZA said:
I've read in multiple different places that one of the core assumptions in D&D 5e is a workday of around 6 encounters (combat or some other obstacles that consume resources) per day. The rate of HP, ability and spell recovery is based around that figure. If, for whatever reason, I'd prefer a less hectic schedule of say 1-2 encounters per day, the encounters would have to be scaled up significantly in order to be sufficiently fun and challenging as the party will often be fully charged and ready to go. That might make the fights last longer than I'd like.

Any advice, be it rule tweaks or other ideas on how to handle this?

For example: I'm thinking of modifying HP recovery so that you spend Hit Dice on both short and long rests. You roll for short but get maximum on long. HD's only recover after a long rest. The intended result is that the PC's don't start every day on maximum HP's.
I have an idea about slower spell recovery as well, maybe you can recover a percentage (33%?) of your total spell levels per day. A 5th level Wizard with 5/3/2 spells has a total of 17 spell levels and would recover 6 levels worth of spells after a long rest.
Just some ideas, there's probably a load of things I haven't considered

“Encounters” doesn’t have to mean combats. Use traps and puzzles to to drain the players of resources.

For the combats they do have use environment and the enemies intelligence and organization to up the difficulty.

I can’t say this enough to DM’s: ENEMIES KNOW WHO THEY ARE. Giants know they throw boulders better then most and from a high vantage point, of course they would stand behind an 8’ tall rock pile to gain cover and toss them. Fire immune creatures know they are fire immune, so inhabit 120 degree places that are so hot that PC with armor must make CON checks every hour or take a level of exhaustion.

Zombies and Skeletons are not intelligent but the necromancer who created them is, of course he/she would have his minions fight in a cloudkill spell. Blind creatures with blind sense or tremor sense would go after the parties light source first to blind the party or just fight in a Fog Cloud. Hobgoblins should almost never be surprised with the frequent patrols they would have, and certainly would react with a well laid out plan for escalation that a minimum would include archers operating behind a phalanx with readied actions to attack any who approach.

Tony Vargas · May 1, 2018

iserith said:
I think such a focus on encounter and class balance is really better suited to a previous edition of the game.

Balance is an attribute of all games, whether they focus on improving it or prioritize it far below other attributes. The distinction between class & encounter balance is very relevant to this topic, though, as 5e design calibrates both to an assumed day length - a pretty long one - and an approximate ratio of short:long rests.

smbakeresq said:
“Encounters” doesn’t have to mean combats. Use traps and puzzles to to drain the players of resources.

Do traps and puzzles drain resources quite like they did back in the day?

smbakeresq · May 1, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Balance is an attribute of all games, whether they focus on improving it or prioritize it far below other attributes. The distinction between class & encounter balance is very relevant to this topic, though, as 5e design calibrates both to an assumed day length - a pretty long one - and an approximate ratio of short:long rests.

Do traps and puzzles drain resources quite like they did back in the day?

Base traps and puzzles no. However, a trap or puzzle can lead into an encounter, thus combing 2 encounters into one with a slight delay. If the PC's get through the trap without spending anything, then the next encounter would be easier, if not, the next encounter is a little harder.

A good one from the old A1-4 series was a passage way that had to be traversed that was filled with glue that hardened after a little bit. If you took time to get over it without getting into the glue then you missed the magic weapon that was in the glue. If you waded through you got the weapon but then the glue hardened, giving some penalties in the next encounter which occurred right after. If you took a round to wash the glue off with wine or vinegar you just lost the round. If you didn't use wine or vinegar you had to take the penalties for the next encounter until it hardened enough to peel off. I think that's right from memory.

iserith · May 1, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Balance is an attribute of all games, whether they focus on improving it or prioritize it far below other attributes. The distinction between class & encounter balance is very relevant to this topic, though, as 5e design calibrates both to an assumed day length - a pretty long one - and an approximate ratio of short:long rests.

So far as I can tell, it seems low in terms of priority in this system and the DM is given sufficient tools and guidelines to sort out whatever level of balance he or she wants at the table. Which is why I don't really understand the obsession some posters demonstrate when it comes to this matter. It seems like they want the game to be some other edition. That ship has sailed.

smbakeresq · May 1, 2018

iserith said:
I think such a focus on encounter and class balance is really better suited to a previous edition of the game.

It is. I think a "problem" is most DM's have not DMed before this edition, where you had to be careful to not accidently wipe group. All those save or die spells that the players don't get the bad guys don't get either. Immunities have become resistances and resistances have become disadvantage, replaced with HP in some cases, to keep the game moving along.

I think this is great by the way. Players don't mind tough encounters, they just hate impossible ones.

smbakeresq · May 1, 2018

Class balance is an issue as some classes need frequent rests to shine while others do not (except for HP recovery.)

The old paradigm was when the spell casters ran out of spells you had to rest, otherwise it was how was the healing and HP doing. Now with abilities recharging on rests, players need to figure out who needs to nova this encounter so others can save their stuff for the following encounter. Unfortunately too many players are used to blowing their abilities and then getting to rest and recover with impunity. As a DM you need to see what your group is and then make it clear what the pace of play is. A group that had pushed through to exhaustion has played well, a group that stops every other encounter should just be harassed into the ground with random encounters or just something having the next encounter much tougher with the enemy reacting intelligently.

Tony Vargas · May 1, 2018

iserith said:
So far as I can tell, (balance) seems low in terms of priority in this system

Yes.

and the DM is given sufficient tools and guidelines to sort out whatever level of balance he or she wants at the table. Which is why I don't really understand the obsession some posters demonstrate when it comes to this matter.

Tools, yes, the DM is essentially given carte blanche to choose modules or rewrite the game to whatever degree he wants. Even if he doesn't take it that far, the standard rules put the distribution of powerful magic items entirely in his hands, and give him barely-constrained latitude in simply narrating the results of PC actions, when desired....
Guidelines? What to do with all that Empowerment? Not so much - really, much of that would just be taking empowerment back. The encounter guidelines, for instance, spell out the expected encounters(and short rests)/day, but are pretty vague about any other factors that you might use to establish balance, if that was your thing.

It seems like they want the game to be some other edition. That ship has sailed.

5e /is/ the edition that's meant to be other editions! It's meant to evoke 1e or 2e if that's what you want, or be very limited like Basic (free pdf), or give you some of the customizeability (turn on feats & MCing) of 3.5 if you want.