How big's the RPG market?

Jay Verkuilen · Jul 10, 2017

Gareman said:
Publishers have plenty of strategies to implement brand protection that doesn't run afoul of antitrust laws. We've seen this already with a number of publishers, with Asmodee being the biggest and most recent example. There is nothing stopping WOTC from protecting their brand other than their will to do so. It's one of those taboo discussion points as well. They're willing to discuss anything but this.

Well the do soft brand protection, for instance by releasing to FLGSes early. They don't participate in Bits 'n Mortar, but if they did that would be another way.

Charon'sLittleHelper · Jul 10, 2017

see said:
Add in that US culture tends to be more litigious than European, and there are lots of things a European company (especially one with few American lawyers) would be willing to tell a US subsidiary to do that a US company (especially one with a large legal department) would prohibit a division/subsidiary from doing.

I'll just hop in and say that it's not a cultural issue. It's a legal one.

The US is one of the only countries in the world which doesn't have a loser pays system. In virtually every other country, if you sue someone and lose, you have to pay their legal fees they spent defending themselves. In the US the only drawback is the cost of your own attorney, and a LOT of lawyers are willing to work for 1/3 of the payout if they think they have a halfway decent shot of making bank. That's what all of the ambulance chasers are talking about in commercials when they say "I don't get paid unless you get paid". They'll do it for a 5-10% chance of victory if the potential payout is big enough.

There are disadvantages to it as well - but I still think that the US should switch to a loser pays system to cut down on all of the crazy frivolous lawsuits. (It would also help with healthcare costs. My sister, a doctor, has been sued about some crazily stupid stuff - which jacks up her malpractice insurance and makes her need to charge patients more to pay for it.)

Ilbranteloth · Jul 11, 2017

Gareman said:
3. The consensus, because nobody knows anything in the game trade for sure, is well over half of RPG sales happen online, mostly Amazon. When Wizards of the Coast allows Amazon to sell the Player's Handbook below distribution costs, well duh. It hurts new player acquisition as the FLGS is the acknowledged marketing arm of the game trade.

WotC doesn't "allow" Amazon to sell it below distribution costs.

It is illegal for a manufacturer to set the price a retailer can sell it (in the US and Canada at least). They can't do anything at all about Amazon's price (other than raise the wholesale price). But Amazon can still sell it for a loss if they'd like.

They can institute a Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) policy that would restrict the price that Amazon can post on their page. You'd have to add it to a shopping cart to see the price.

see · Jul 11, 2017

Ilbranteloth said:
It is illegal for a manufacturer to set the price a retailer can sell it (in the US and Canada at least).

That's slightly outdated. While minimum resale price agreements used to be per se illegal in the U.S. (and had been since 1911's Dr. Miles Medical Co. decision), ten years ago the US Supreme Court moved it to a "rule of reason" offense in Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc. So it's now possible to legally set a minimum price for retailers in the U.S., if you can satisfy a court that you're not restraining trade to the detriment of consumers.

Emerikol · Jul 11, 2017

I'm not faulting you because it's very interesting data. I do though think sales is not the true measure of how much something is played. Roleplaying games just cost a lot less in financial investment than non-roleplaying games. Now I agree that we are very small. Maybe though not as small as these numbers indicate if hours played was the comparison instead of money spent.

Giorgicus · Jul 11, 2017

Given the limitations of the research in the OP, it is still nice to see this information each year. I enjoy seeing which RPGs are in the fight for the top five rankings.

I am an "all of the above" gamer; I play dice games, card games, board games, online games, mobile games, PC games, console games, miniature games, role-playing games, with legos, hope to one day play at a convention games, and dream about games. Am I part of the problem, or part of the solution for making my favorite RPG hobby thrive?

Morrus · Jul 11, 2017

Emerikol said:
I'm not faulting you because it's very interesting data. I do though think sales is not the true measure of how much something is played. Roleplaying games just cost a lot less in financial investment than non-roleplaying games. Now I agree that we are very small. Maybe though not as small as these numbers indicate if hours played was the comparison instead of money spent.

It’s only measuring market share. Any other metrics are their own thing.

Darkness · Jul 11, 2017

The_Gunslinger658 said:
... 4E sucking so bad ... I know I quit playing when 4E came out, that was not D&D ...

Keep it civil, please. We really don't need any more edition warring on these boards - no matter which edition you happen to prefer or dislike.

The_Gunslinger658 · Jul 12, 2017

Whoa mohammad; Over in the 5E section, there is a thread bashing Forgotten Realms, I like the realms, but I am not going to huff and puff over people who dislike it, it is there right as Americans to voice their opinion on what they feel is right or wrong with the realms. The same I think should go with 4E, if people do not like it, than let people speak freely about and not have a russian like attitude towards free speech. We are grown all grown men and know how to ignore threads that might get peoples blood boiling.

Darkness said:
Keep it civil, please. We really don't need any more edition warring on these boards - no matter which edition you happen to prefer or dislike.

Morrus · Jul 12, 2017

The_Gunslinger658 said:
Whoa mohammad; Over in the 5E section, there is a thread bashing Forgotten Realms, I like the realms, but I am not going to huff and puff over people who dislike it, it is there right as Americans to voice their opinion on what they feel is right or wrong with the realms. The same I think should go with 4E, if people do not like it, than let people speak freely about and not have a russian like attitude towards free speech. We are grown all grown men and know how to ignore threads that might get peoples blood boiling.

Don’t argue publicly with moderators, please. If you want to ask Darkness about moderation, you can contact him directly.

How big's the RPG market?

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers

Charon'sLittleHelper

First Post

Ilbranteloth

Explorer

see

Pedantic Grognard

Emerikol

Adventurer

Giorgicus

Explorer

Morrus

Well, that was fun

Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]

The_Gunslinger658

First Post

Morrus

Well, that was fun

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