D&D 5E BECMI for 5e?

dave2008 · Jul 2, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Here's the thing, I mean, 5e is already pretty basic. It's nice to have some starter kits, but there's no reason to split the rules like that.

What if by splitting up the rules, the later boxes added options and complexity? I was trying to suggest that by adding feats in one box, multiclassing in another, and mass combat in yet another. You could also add a "tactical module" in another and stongholds and henchmen in another.

dave2008 · Jul 2, 2019

Ralif Redhammer said:
Now, as to what a BECMI style progression for 5e would look like, what strikes me about those old box sets is how each one changed and expanded the game. The Basic set was all about the dungeon, the Expert set brought in Wilderness adventure, Companion had jousting tournaments and mass combat, Masters had rulership, and Immortals its divinity. I’d think taking some of the optional rules from the DMG would work to help codify that progression within 5e.

Yes, that is the idea I was trying to get at. Each box would expand the 5e base.

dave2008 · Jul 2, 2019

Jer said:
As for the OP - I can see the draw of having some boxed sets that pull people into the game through a different path. The transition from "$20 Starter Set" to "$150 of hardcover books" is a bit extreme. But I think the breakdown you have is too much - it basically replicates the entire game and I don't think that's the right way to do it. The way I'd suggest for it is:

* Starter Set
* Essentials Kit
Both of these as currently produced - the Starter Set gives you an out of the box experience with pre-gen characters for a low buy-in, the Essentials Kit expands your game for a fairly low buy-in with character creation, one new class and new race, and a number of new adventures. Character advancement takes you to level 6.

* Explorers Kit
A more wilderness/sandbox campaign set in roughly the same area as the Starter Set and Essentials Kit (expanding on the lore for the purchasers of the Starter and Essentials Kits). Expands the 5 classes in the Essentials Kit to level 10, adds another class and another race to the mix to a total of 6 of each.

I like that line of thinking (and the name is great).

Jer said:
At that point you've got levels 1-10 covered with a variety of classes and races. If you're that bought in, you're probably ready to move on to the hardcovers.

I would rather continue with a box or two more than have the hardcovers. But maybe that is just me. I enjoyed and used my boxed sets more than AD&D hardcovers when I was a kid, so I am probably biased.

dave2008 · Jul 2, 2019

LordEntrails said:
Hence if I buy a book, I know its' not going to overlap with other sources. The boxes don't do that. They duplicate existing rules, and provide a nice box with all the trinkets that are fun to play with. I hope they continue along those lines.

Well, the intent was a theoretical discussion of what if we didn't have the hardcovers and the game was only available through the boxes. How would that change things? Would it change things?

LordEntrails said:
I like the idea of an Explorer's box. It could include the rules for gnomes, rangers and druids. Include a nice hex crawl map and include the sections of the DMG for such exploration. And of course include a bunch of beasts from the MM and other sources. Maybe it might even include a remake of Expedition to Barrier Peaks...

A Seafarer's box could include a map of the MoonSea, and punch out cardboard 3D ship. Include any rules expansions from Saltmarsh (haven't looked at it yet, but people talk about ship rules). Don't know what races and classes you would include, would have to look at what's in the other boxes. Maybe just rules for levels 6-10 or so.

I like that idea as well, an interesting way to expand the rules with the existing hardcovers.

S'mon · Jul 2, 2019

dave2008 said:
I enjoyed and used my boxed sets more than AD&D hardcovers when I was a kid, so I am probably biased.

I think Mentzer Basic & Expert sold much more than CMI though, and when I ran it we spent nearly all the campaign in the Expert tier. With full rules compatibility for 5e boxes I think it makes good sense to have a Basic 1-5 (which we have) and an Expert 6-10 covering the same classes, more monsters & magic items, maybe add a class or two - certainly Barbarian should be in there IMO - and some new Paths for the existing classes - and an adventure, something like Isle of Dread in the Blue Box would
work well. This can be sold at Target and toy stores. I think players sufficiently invested to play beyond 10th will be willing to buy a PHB or D&D Beyond subscription. I would keep Feats & Multiclassing for the PHB.

Shiroiken · Jul 2, 2019

The original purpose of BECMI was to introduce players to AD&D or OD&D from a simpler form. Realistically, the free basic rules provide this exact same experience, as it lacks all the optional rules that complicate things.

CapnZapp · Jul 2, 2019

jgsugden said:
I'd rather see them give us a book that improves upon levels 15 to 20 and then gives us rules for 21 to 30. A year of full day weekend weekly games, 2 years of active weeknight games, or 3 years of weeknight games with missed sessions will take a party from 1 to 20 under the guidelines and typical game speed. I'd like to be able to spend longer with a character and there is room to add epic options to the existing classes. By adding another 10 levels you could give us more time with favoite PCs - and they've had enough time to learn from the foibles of the current system to balance those high levels better.

Actually, given the overall meh-factor on most (not all, but most) high-level abilities that aren't spells, and how the game feels like content is thinner at the upper half, I think they could just pick the best ideas of any potential Epic book (as opposed to "most overpowered") and integrate that into the high levels of the ordinary book.

That is, keep the 20 levels. But stock them with more content, and you can level through them slower and it still feels satisfying. So few people reaches 12, let alone 20, I think it is time to put the idea of 20-30 to rest.

Easily half existing abilities given out at high levels could be given out five or ten levels earlier, to make room for new ones that actually feel powerful.

Let level 17 be the new epic, with a nice three levels to round off that epic campaign!

dave2008 · Jul 2, 2019

S'mon said:
I think Mentzer Basic & Expert sold much more than CMI though, and when I ran it we spent nearly all the campaign in the Expert tier. With full rules compatibility for 5e boxes I think it makes good sense to have a Basic 1-5 (which we have) and an Expert 6-10 covering the same classes, more monsters & magic items, maybe add a class or two - certainly Barbarian should be in there IMO - and some new Paths for the existing classes - and an adventure, something like Isle of Dread in the Blue Box would
work well. This can be sold at Target and toy stores. I think players sufficiently invested to play beyond 10th will be willing to buy a PHB or D&D Beyond subscription. I would keep Feats & Multiclassing for the PHB.

That is probably a better business plan. However, I can't help but ponder what it would like like if there was no PHB, DMG, & MM. What if all we had was the boxed sets?

LordEntrails · Jul 2, 2019

dave2008 said:
Well, the intent was a theoretical discussion of what if we didn't have the hardcovers and the game was only available through the boxes. How would that change things? Would it change things?

Not what I took away from the previous discussion at all

Sure, it could be done. But I don't think its better than the widely accepted model of a players guide and a game masters guide and then expansion sources format.

Hriston · Jul 2, 2019

This thread gives me an idea for a Basic Rules game. Use only hill dwarves, high elves, lightfoot halflings, and standard humans. Humans can be any of life cleric, champion fighter, thief rogue, or evocation wizard. Dwarves and halflings can only be champion fighters. And elves can only be eldritch knight fighters. I think that would go a long way towards emulating a B/X style game.