D&D 5E Dealing with stupidly high rolls.

BluejayJunior · Mar 30, 2018

I'm a fan of that. Even as a player. Especially if you're playing with players who will decide to not sneak or do whatever when they roll low. (No, you cannot decide to not climb the mountain after you've rolled a 2 athletics.) It makes the roll much more suspenseful.

Eltab · Mar 30, 2018

If I build a Rogue with Expertise (Stealth) and multi-class into Ranger until I can pick up Pass Without Trace and equip him with an Elven Cloak of Blending into the Background, I am trying to set up to be good in a particular situation. The DM is not REQUIRED to make everything I run into be variations on that situation, but from time to time I should encounter it.

When my friends and I break into The Inescapable Dungeon of Despair, rescue the kidnapped Princess, and I successfully sneak everybody out past all the alerted guards (who subsequently have no idea where we went), I / we ought to feel cool and powerful.

OTOH, I'm going to feel like a fifth wheel if the challenge at hand is "persuade the King to approve -something-".

TheSword · Mar 30, 2018

I think you have to be really careful that the rogue doesn’t turn into a one man band by exploring 50 ft ahead of the party at all times. It may make tactical sense but it’s isnt good for storytelling, suspense or teamwork if every encounter is vetted by the rogue before being encountered by the party.

Also sneaking a party in and out of a dungeon may feel like an achievement to you but presumably quite a lot of effort has gone in for there to be interesting and exiting things to do inside. Not to mention the skills other party members have put their effort in. Don’t worry Frodo, you passed your stealth checks. You reach the crack of doom without incident.

As an aside... every party member can contribute to NPC interaction, that doesn’t require skills, just an opinion.

Warmaster Horus · Mar 30, 2018

TheSword said:
I think you have to be really careful that the rogue doesn’t turn into a one man band by exploring 50 ft ahead of the party at all times. It may make tactical sense but it’s isnt good for storytelling, suspense or teamwork

So that's a problem but the Warlock sending their Imp or the Druid turning into a rat and doing the same thing aren't? I think the party decides how they want to do it. With my rogue I like to be out front scouting because of his Stupidly High Stealth™ but if the party doesn't like that I do the reverse and put him 50' behind the group.

TheSword · Mar 30, 2018

Warmaster Horus said:
So that's a problem but the Warlock sending their Imp or the Druid turning into a rat and doing the same thing aren't? I think the party decides how they want to do it. With my rogue I like to be out front scouting because of his Stupidly High Stealth™ but if the party doesn't like that I do the reverse and put him 50' behind the group.

Of course it’s the same if the familiar goes, or if a spellcaster become indivisible, gaseous etc. It’s a problem. With all things, nobody minds if it’s once or twice but for the reasons I gave in my post it becomes annoying.

If you want to be 50’ behind the party that’s your call. It kind of begs the question why your character travels with a group at all. Surely you’re better off going it alone.

GMMichael · Mar 30, 2018

TheSword said:
I think you have to be really careful that the rogue doesn’t turn into a one man band by exploring 50 ft ahead of the party at all times. It may make tactical sense but it’s isnt good for storytelling, suspense or teamwork if every encounter is vetted by the rogue before being encountered by the party. . .

As an aside... every party member can contribute to NPC interaction, that doesn’t require skills, just an opinion.

Quick fix: the rogue can explore 50 feet ahead. However, he can't scout and search for traps at the same time. One requires darkness and quiet. The other requires light and noise (like tapping on surfaces).

I should hope that NPC interaction requires skill, unless the PCs do most of their socializing in public houses. Amongst drunkards. While fights are going on.

Warmaster Horus · Mar 30, 2018

TheSword said:
Of course it’s the same if the familiar goes, or if a spellcaster become indivisible, gaseous etc. It’s a problem. With all things, nobody minds if it’s once or twice but for the reasons I gave in my post it becomes annoying.

If you want to be 50’ behind the party that’s your call. It kind of begs the question why your character travels with a group at all. Surely you’re better off going it alone.

He's a ranged rogue so it puts him in a good spot to provide fire support while watching the rear of the group.

snickersnax · Mar 30, 2018

Warmaster Horus said:
In my stealth model a direct line of sight breaks the ability to hide (ie, you can't hide in the open) so it matters not if there's a stupidly high Stealth roll if there's nothing to hide behind. If there is something to hide behind and the character is just that good, then CELEBRATE it.

Warmaster Horus said:
With my rogue I like to be out front scouting because of his Stupidly High Stealth™ but if the party doesn't like that I do the reverse and put him 50' behind the group.

I really don't understand how hide works...

You can only hide if you have no line of sight.

How is your rogue benefiting from his Stupid Stealth if he is out in front and can be seen? What is the point of his stealth roll?

DEFCON 1 · Mar 30, 2018

snickersnax said:
I really don't understand how hide works...

You can only hide if you have no line of sight.

How is your rogue benefiting from his Stupid Stealth if he is out in front and can be seen? What is the point of his stealth roll?

I would imagine he means that the super high stealth is referencing his inability to be heard, rather than not seen. Obviously if you are walking down dungeon corridors you won't be seen by anyone until you come upon them, so the Stealth check is for how quietly you are moving and whether the sound is echoing down the halls possibly alerting people.

I could be wrong about what [MENTION=6785438]Warmaster Horus[/MENTION] was saying, but it doesn't sound like it.

DEFCON 1 · Mar 30, 2018

The reason why Pass Without Trace doesn't bother me is because all it's doing it removing the bonus 10 points an enemy is getting to their roll from them using Passive Perception. The spell basically is saying that anyone under its influence will almost certainly go unnoticed by enemies just hanging around not actually searching for them.

In a lot of ways, PoT is basically just an alternative to "Group checks". The game wants a way for a group of characters to move around without being heard or noticed all the time. But every time they have to roll a check there is a HUGE chance that at least one PC is going to botch them-- rolling 1s, 2s, 3s, etc. And this is especially true of the PCs wearing heavy armor and who have to roll with Disadvantage.

Seeing as how this fact means that there will almost always be one or two PCs (or monsters) that will be heard in any group... the game tries to set up various reasons why Surprise and sneaking up on other groups actually can happen. One way is the "group check" in whatever form the DM runs it-- for instance if 50% or more of the PCs roll higher than any potential Passive Perception of the enemies who might hear them, then no one gets heard (regardless of how poorly any one of those individual PCs might have rolled.) Another way was to introduce Pass Without Trace, a spell that basically removed the '10' any enemy "rolled" due to using Passive Perception. This also fairly guarantees most PCs will probably succeed in their Stealth checks more often than not. The only difference being that rather than half the party needing to roll poorly in a "group check" for them to be heard... only a single PC (probably rolling with Disadvantage due to heavy armor) has to roll really poorly (we're talking down in the 1-3s) in order to miss the enemies' Passive Perceptions.

The only time where it becomes rather pointless is if the DM uses both PoT and group checks together... because then there is pretty much a 0% chance of the PCs EVER failing a Stealth check and being heard. In cases like this, you pretty much have to assume the DM will put at least a couple monsters "on guard" so that they can try to roll actual Perception checks in hopes of rolling high enough to notice one of them.