Playing with the Averages - A simplistic approach

TheCosmicKid · Mar 16, 2019

Ancalagon said:
On the other hand, if the orcs do 1d12+2 well... If you have 7 or 9 hit points, you might survive a hit, or you might not.

I'm not sure that this loss of uncertainty is worth the gain in speed?

The uncertainty is already there in the attack roll. From an abstract game design standpoint, having both an attack roll and a damage roll is probably redundant. D&D does it because if it didn't it wouldn't be D&D, not because it's actually the best way to run a combat system.

FrogReaver · Mar 16, 2019

You could easily add in a damage roll to confirm death mechanic. Otherwise the Foe goes to 1 hp. Anything at 1 will die when you hit so no roll required.

cmad1977 · Mar 16, 2019

I do it sometimes with the monsters but haven’t for the players. The interesting idea. Feats are a thing that might throw a wrench in it. I’d totally try this with a feat-less game.

Oofta · Mar 16, 2019

A question for the math-oriented, how do you calculate the average for people that reroll 1s and 2s? If we kept rolling until we didn't have a 1 or 2 it would be straightforward, we're just replacing the lowest possible value. But when you reroll you only get one chance so that greatsword damage die reroll will still be a 1 or 2 a third of the time.

It hasn't come up in my game yet so I'm curious in case it does.

Satyrn · Mar 16, 2019

dnd4vr said:
Our DM was thinking about using the average unless it would automatically reduce a character to zero, and then actually roll in those cases to give the character a chance to keep going after the hit. He would also use it for BBEGs, etc.

I like the idea that @FrogReaver put forth. What your DM is considering would require that he knows how many hit points the player has left, or would result in the player saying "oh, that takes down" and the DM responding "no, wait; let me roll the dice," then gathering up the dice, etc.

I think that it would be more straightforward when a player is dropped to 0, he flips a coin. Heads, he's still up at 1 hp. Tails, he's on his butt at 0. A character with only 1 hit point when he takes damage doesn't get to make the coin flip.

Brashnir2 · Mar 16, 2019

I use this for my Simulacrum, but still use proper damage rolls for my primary character in my current campaign. Next time I DM, I'd be interested in using this for all players, but I don't think my table would enjoy it. They like rolling dice too much.

77IM · Mar 16, 2019

I take average damage for most monsters, but for big boss monsters I roll dice. It's a way of signaling to the players that this monster means business.

DND_Reborn · Mar 16, 2019

Oofta said:
A question for the math-oriented, how do you calculate the average for people that reroll 1s and 2s? If we kept rolling until we didn't have a 1 or 2 it would be straightforward, we're just replacing the lowest possible value. But when you reroll you only get one chance so that greatsword damage die reroll will still be a 1 or 2 a third of the time.

It hasn't come up in my game yet so I'm curious in case it does.

If no one does is before me, I'll do it later when I have time. It ends up being something like a 1.25-1.50 point increase on average, but I could be wrong--it was a while ago. Which I thought was sad really since Dueling Style gives you a straight +2.

Brashnir2 said:
I use this for my Simulacrum, but still use proper damage rolls for my primary character in my current campaign. Next time I DM, I'd be interested in using this for all players, but I don't think my table would enjoy it. They like rolling dice too much.

LOL we did, too, until we tried it. You might be surprised but if not, no worries.

77IM said:
I take average damage for most monsters, but for big boss monsters I roll dice. It's a way of signaling to the players that this monster means business.

That isn't a bad idea, either, saving rolling for the BBEG's and such. I'll pass it on to our DM.

77IM · Mar 16, 2019

Oofta said:
A question for the math-oriented, how do you calculate the average for people that reroll 1s and 2s? If we kept rolling until we didn't have a 1 or 2 it would be straightforward, we're just replacing the lowest possible value. But when you reroll you only get one chance so that greatsword damage die reroll will still be a 1 or 2 a third of the time.

It hasn't come up in my game yet so I'm curious in case it does.

As a good approximation, a reroll on a polyhedral die (but you have to take the second roll) is worth about +1 per die.

Rerolling is worth a smidge less for low dice (d4 it is only worth +0.5) and a smidge more for large dice (for d12 it's +1.5) but I find that +1 is close enough and makes the math very quick. On a d20 it's worth +2.5!
This also assumes that you can choose when to re-roll, and you choose to re-roll anything less than the average, on the grounds that you are likely to do better on the second roll. (For example, the sorcerer's empowered spell metamagic -- it's worth approximately +Cha mod, assuming you are rolling at least 2x Cha mod dice.)
If you can only reroll 1-2 (like greatweapon fighting style) or only reroll 1 (like Elemental Adept feat) it's worth a bit less, but not as much less as you might think. For most die sizes, rerolling 1s is worth just shy of +0.5 (the d4 is only +0.375 and the d20 is +0.475), and rerolling 1-2 is worth +0.5 or a bit more (the d4 gets +0.5 and the d20 gets +1; the d12 is +0.83333...). For most purposes, I would just call both reroll 1 and reroll 1-2 an increase of +0.5 and be done with it.
If you get to roll both dice at once and THEN pick which one you take (like with advantage), it's worth considerably more, usually around 25% of the average.

GMMichael · Mar 16, 2019

Oofta said:
A question for the math-oriented, how do you calculate the average for people that reroll 1s and 2s?

Since I'm not math-oriented, I'll show you the long version. Average damage is the sum of all possible outcomes, divided by the number of outcomes.

No re-roll d4:
Roll 1 2 3 4
Sum 10
Avg 2.5

If you re-roll 1s on a d4, you have these outcomes:

1st roll	1	1	1	1	2	3	4
Re-roll	1	2	3	4
Result	1	2	3	4	2	3	4

Sum 19
Avg 2.7

Teach a man to fish (by using lengthy tables)...

Playing with the Averages - A simplistic approach

TheCosmicKid

Hero

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

cmad1977

Hero

Oofta

Legend

Satyrn

First Post

Brashnir2

First Post

77IM

Explorer!!!

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin

77IM

Explorer!!!

GMMichael

Guide of Modos

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