Hey, so you know this "space marine" thing?

Morrus · Feb 8, 2013

wingsandsword said:
GW may be a British company, but Amazon is an American company, the author is American, and they are asserting a trademark violation of something a US author wrote, and tried to sell through a US company to a US audience.

So, unless the British Intellectual Property Office has jurisdiction in the United States that I am unaware of, GW would need to go through the United States Patent and Trademark Office to register a trademark stateside.

Nobody has registered a trademark anywhere, as I think this thread makes clear.

And Amazon is an international company with corporate headquarters in multiple countries (and, more importantly, tax jurisidictions). If you get to say your HQ is in Dublin for tax reasons, you don't get to say you're an "American company". And saying "oooh, this one in America/Timbuktu/The Cayman Islands is our real HQ, not those other ones" is utterly meaningless in the modern age for anything other than propaganda.

Internationals don't work like that.

[Also, while I am certainly not a lawyer and know that we have lawyers here (S'mon and dannyalcatraz come to mind, and S'mon is specifically an expert on British IP law IIRC so he may be the best ENWorlder to weigh in on this issue), I was under the impression that common law trademark is pretty weak IP protection.

Claiming a common law trademark on a phrase that can clearly be seen as in use in an entire literary genre dating to over 50 years before your company ever used it, and has been in significant use in literature and other creative works like video games since you used it sounds like a recipe for failure. Note that GW only tried to use it against a small-time independent author, not against any of the larger companies to use the term, but thanks to the Internet, this little shakedown attempt became big news.

Yup, it's weak. Hell, it's pretty much invalid, let alone weak. You're preaching to the converted. Nobody's defended GW here.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 8, 2013

There ARE some good points in that proposal, but some idiocy as well.

They argued, for instance, that movies, etc. with pop-up info bubbles or contemporaneous commentary would be useful and enjoyable to some, but that it has been stifled by current copyright law, while simultaneously pointing out the very real and enjoyable show VH-1's Pop-Up Video that inspired their point. (Not to mention other shows that have done contemporaneous commentary on films, such as MST3K.)

As for IP law being, as they assert, a violation of lassaiz-faire economics, the counterpoint is, as my CivPro prof Sam Isaacarof would say, "So what?" That argument in and of itself carries no intellectual weight: there are all kinds of violations of lassaiz-faire economics we see as vital to a functioning and ethical modern economy & society.

(And to reiterate, I'm not asserting the status quo is perfect.)

dm4hire · Feb 9, 2013

#Dannyalcatraz - I think the biggest points of that proposal and touched on already is the time limits. Hell let Disney keep their rodent in perpetuation for all eternity, but I think it should cost them every year they do.

Mary_Crowell · Feb 9, 2013

Speaking of restricting words one has no business restricting: Jim C. Hines (a fantasy writer) wanted to sell tee shirts through Zazzle that depicted the "Muse most of us really need." But there is a clothing brand called Muse, and they made a big stink about it, and Zazzle said he couldn't sell the shirt through them. "Muse" has been around a really long time as a concept and word. Zazzle and Amazon seem to roll over awfully easy. Link to comic: http://www.jimchines.com/2011/04/comic-amusement/

There is a really good (and very short) story by Spider Robinson that some (including me) have linked to in response to GW trademark issue. Fencing up all the creative pasture is not good for art, music, gaming, or any imaginative endeavor.

Here's a link to the story if anyone wants to read it.
http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 9, 2013

I agree that continuously renewable copyright for nominal fees is not good. I'd be happy with terms that increase with cost over time, based on the value of the IP. The initial lifetime should be nominal at best. The next renewal term would cost a % of the IP's value.* The next term would be a higher % of the IP's value, etc., up until, saaaay...85%. That way, anyone can renew a copyright as long as they are willing to pay.

Disney gets to keep the Mouse protected from damaging duplicates- such as some of the animated porn that pops up from time to time- and inefficient or undesiring handlers of copyright soon lose their grip on it.

If it hasn't been capitalized upon, the assessment would be done by an independent appraiser.

dm4hire · Feb 9, 2013

One other aspect of that proposal I really liked was the suggestion to penalize frivolous lawsuits which I think would put an end to a lot of the strong arm tactics we've seen recently and definitely would make GW think twice. Also any business trying to make a name for themselves by drawing attention to themselves due to the court case would probably go away or at least not happen as often I'd hope.

Olgar Shiverstone · Feb 9, 2013

Amazon has apparently relented and restored the book, so perhaps the space marines of the universe are safe for now.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 9, 2013

dm4hire said:
One other aspect of that proposal I really liked was the suggestion to penalize frivolous lawsuits...

That's something I want for our system in general.

El Mahdi · Feb 9, 2013

deleted

Vyvyan Basterd · Feb 11, 2013

dm4hire said:
One other aspect of that proposal I really liked was the suggestion to penalize frivolous lawsuits.

Dannyalcatraz said:
That's something I want for our system in general.

I want the same thing, but then I wonder if that would effectively stop the poor from being able to sue for legitimate reasons because of fear that someone will render their lawsuit frivilous, costing them money they don't have.

Hey, so you know this "space marine" thing?

Morrus

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