With the campaign I have been playing in coming to a close, my D.M. has expressed an interest in running an Epic Level campaign. (20-25 ish) Having a copy of the ELH I flipped through it, then looked on the internet for information. I came to discover that most people on this and Wizards message boards have a hatred of the Union city presented in the book. My quesiton to you is, why? What is the problem with Union as it is written?
What is the Problem with Union!
Don't know if this belongs in House Rules, maybe General instead. But to answer the question, as far as I can tell people don't like it because Planescape already created a "city at the center of the planes-" that being Sigil. Union, as defined in the ELH, sort of steps on Sigil's toes that way, and tries to be "like Sigil- only EPIC!!!!1!" Basically, the concept seems slapdash and flavorless- most who were around for Planescape would prefer to just use Sigil instead.
In my own game I use both, but the PCs have mostly been doing stuff in Union since about 14th level or so- one of them even acquired a mansion there, via questing for the Mercanes, that the party uses off and on as a base/meeting point.
In my own game I use both, but the PCs have mostly been doing stuff in Union since about 14th level or so- one of them even acquired a mansion there, via questing for the Mercanes, that the party uses off and on as a base/meeting point.
Geoff Watson
First Post
It's too much like a regular town, but with higher levels. Eg 31st level guards, 18th level cooks, 15th level fishermen, etc.
Though the main reason for the complaints is that the Planescape fanatics don't like it because it isn't Sigil.
Geoff.
Though the main reason for the complaints is that the Planescape fanatics don't like it because it isn't Sigil.
Geoff.
Psion
Adventurer
GahLakTus said:
Union is ridiculous. It totally saps the any sort of epic flavor out of the city.
I could see an Epic city. I really could. (c.f., RIFTS Atlantis...) They COULD have made union an awesome city by sprinkling it with epic flavor.
Instead we get a powered up normal city. They could have had the city patrolled by ultra-powerful golems like Gort from The Day the Earth Stood Still. Instead, we have men that should be at the heads of mighty armies serving as guards. (Heh... it's be a cute joke to run a game in the city and give the constables names like "Seargant Achilles" and "Lieutenant Siegfried.") Epic bards have groupies that outside of sigil would lead great bard colleges.
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Dog Moon
Adventurer
Psion said:
Yeah, this is pretty much my opinion. Although one thing I just thought of: is everything like 100x more expensive than in a normal city? I mean, if it's an epic city and the cook is level 15, that means he has 59,000gp. Why doesn't he retire? What else could he possibly want and if he's just a cook, where did he get all that money?
I don't know. The idea of Union just sounds ridiculous and poorly thought out and there wasn't much that I remember that made it particularly interesting.
I always thought that if they wanted to, Union could like conquer some other world, but naw, they're content with their crappy lives. I mean seriously, would you fight a small army if the weakest, common soldier is level like 18 or so? Nuh-uh! I'd probably last longer committing Sepuku.
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
I concur with all previous responses. I was around for the birth of Sigil into D&D and it's been my favorite setting ever since. If they needed an epic level city for ELH, they could have just used Sigil. In fact that's exactly what I did for my homebrew! The factols and important city figures were all epic (why do you think all those pit fiends and balors are afraid to go bar-hopping in Sigil?) while everyone else was regular. I even created the Fated Depository, where you can stash your mounds of pp in exchange for nice manageable adamantine coins.
Ah, Sigil you elusive dame...
Ah, Sigil you elusive dame...
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