What is the Problem with Union!

[Nomad4life]

30th level guards!?! Huh? Why would anyone be a guard there, when they could be living as a legendary king anywhere else?

 

[Stalker0]

I agree with the above, in my mind this kind of plan is what newb dms do, "Okay you guys are high level, so EVERYONE is now high level."

Part of dming epic games is coming to terms with the fact that for 99% of the world is absolute chump to the PCs. An epic bard could convince an entire town to follow him in he wanted, an epic wizard could remove a town from existance if he tried hard enough.

Sure you have your epic villians, but part of what epic level fun to me if my absolute overwhelming awesomeness compared to most of the world.

 

[Shemeska]

Union has some major faults. It's just a normal city with EPIC people around, apparently with an EPIC plastic clown at the turnstile holding up his EPIC hand declaring that you must be at least X level to enter Union. It's silly and not written with much logic as to how things work in other major planar cities such as Sigil, Grenpoli, Dis, the City of Brass, etc. It's just a normal city with the people there given a 20 level boost.

Union also suffers considerably for appearing to be a cheap, flavorless knockoff of Sigil. If it had a flavor all its own and didn't draw parallels to the City of Doors, it would be seen as poorly conceived, but not as an abomination unto God that should be nuked from orbit just to be sure.

I think it's a hackjob, but I think it can be salvaged by a good DM who gives the city a few hours of abuse at the hands of the big beating stick of logic and sense. Give the city some valid reasons why it hasn't been a target for various planar groups (Planar Trade Consortium, various deities, various fiend races, various celestial races, etc), and give the city some elaboration and integration within the context of the planes at large.

I won't rule out ever using the city, but I'll give it a comprehensive rewrite if I ever do, something along the lines of the hundred or so pages I wrote up on Sigil for Planewalker's Sigil guide. But till then, it'll be an object of abuse and the butt of jokes, like my in character article 'Union in Review' starting on page 5 in the latest issue of the in-game newsrag the Lady's Sharper Eye over on Planewalker.

 

[Dog Moon]

It's just... a horribly designed, nonsensical creation. 30th level guards? Please...

Just... kill it with fire. As soon as possible.

Pfft, the City of Union is so Epic that they don't even know what normal fire is; they use Elder Fire Elementals to light candles and to be mobile torches. A Union Commoner standing in a fire heals by resting more damage than the fire can deal.

Hrmmm, that could almost be a cool thread. "The City of Union is SO Epic that..."

 

[Agback]

Part of dming epic games is coming to terms with the fact that for 99% of the world is absolute chump to the PCs.

I once ran a campaign (not, admittedly, D&D) in which teh PCs were so over-the-top that I simply gave different troop types a terrain value. Which is to say that the PCs could move through enemy armies on the battlefield, but they slowed movement. The only reason for a PC to go around the enemy formations, or to attack the psiloi rather than the hoplites, was if they were in a hurry to get to the other side.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I once ran a campaign (not, admittedly, D&D) in which teh PCs were so over-the-top that I simply gave different troop types a terrain value. Which is to say that the PCs could move through enemy armies on the battlefield, but they slowed movement. The only reason for a PC to go around the enemy formations, or to attack the psiloi rather than the hoplites, was if they were in a hurry to get to the other side.

That...

...may actually qualify as "brilliant."

If I ever run an epic game, consider it stolen.

 

[Aaron L]

The basic idea of Union, as a planar trade crossroads that can shift from one location to another, is actually pretty cool.


The implementaion, however, is horrendous.

 

[fafhrd]

30th level guards!?! Huh? Why would anyone be a guard there, when they could be living as a legendary king anywhere else?

Well, first they tried a couple of guys named Orcus and Demogorgon, but then a quartet of drunk balors showed up and left the two stripped naked and face down in some epic garbage cans. To save face, the city elders had to up the pay scale, the Union Union got involved and sort of went from there...

 

[IceFractal]

The main reason I find it ridiculous:

It's like if, in the real world, all the world leaders of every country got together and built a really expensive city (gold sidewalks, diamond studded trashcans), and then they went and lived in it, doing normal jobs like street cleaner (except that the street cleaner salary would be $50 million a year, and their broom would be made out of platinum). It just ain't gonna happen.

Generally speaking, Epic-level people need a very good reason to be living in a city with each-other, rather than ruling kingdoms and such separately. Also, most of the jobs in a normal city don't apply at Epic level, where sufficient magic can take care of most stuff.

 

[Matafuego]

The main reason I find it ridiculous:

It's like if, in the real world, all the world leaders of every country got together and built a really expensive city (gold sidewalks, diamond studded trashcans), and then they went and lived in it, doing normal jobs like street cleaner (except that the street cleaner salary would be $50 million a year, and their broom would be made out of platinum). It just ain't gonna happen.

Generally speaking, Epic-level people need a very good reason to be living in a city with each-other, rather than ruling kingdoms and such separately. Also, most of the jobs in a normal city don't apply at Epic level, where sufficient magic can take care of most stuff.

Well I made a city like this once IMC.
It was supposedly the city where only those allowed by the Pharaoh could live, with magic for almost every household duty, huge temples and public baths.
As time went by the population grew considerably, more and more people were allowed in and the city changed drastically. Sons and daughters of those allowed were also allowed and some people bribed their way in (although it was hidden magically), then many war heroes were let in, and now it's a hidden city with powerful inhabitants but filled with "normal" npcs.

IMO, a city like that could exist as a new city, but after a while it's impossible to mantain (unless very powerful mgic is at stake).