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Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

You've left out the "Players are granted narrative control to decide when favorable circumstances occur" solution. What's your take on that one?

At least until they've blown their wad of dailies... and then they're out of luck until the PCs sleep on it. Why then, should the ability to take narrative control be based on the ability to sleep it off? Why not have it be a resource based on the game session? Or the character's level? Or some other mechanic of stored-up hero points?

Why should the ability to take "narrative control" be granted only to martial exploters and not controllers who use completely different (and splashier) magical effects for their dailies and not just making use of some fantastical opportunity to cause harm to the target?
 

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At least until they've blown their wad of dailies... and then they're out of luck until the PCs sleep on it. Why then, should the ability to take narrative control be based on the ability to sleep it off?

Change management, so that the ppl who are now complaining about the new and shiny won't have their heads completely explode, as opposed to partially explode.
 

I detest, I hate with the fiery fury of 1000 suns, 1/day non-magical powers because there is NO rationale whatsoever than can explain how a warrior, ranger or rogue wouldn't be able to use a certain ability more than one per day.
Yeah, I hate Barbarian Rages and Rogue defensive rolls, too.

...wait, were you complaining about 4e?

-O
 

What additional justification is required past what's in the rules? Per the rules, a "miss" just means no damage. I don't recall "miss" being defined as "nothing but air".

In the 3.5 PHB, it says "Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for your opponent to land a solid, damaging blow on you." Not just any blow, but a solid, damaging one.
If i were a truly good DM, I would follow through on this plan:

Create a small chart for each character, and keep it behind my DM screen. It would look something like this

Fighter
1-10, air
11-17, scale armor
18-19, shield
20+, check for temporary AC bonuses, otherwise hit

Then when an enemy attacked the Fighter, I'd look at my notes and know how to narrate what happened.

Actually... now that I look at it, maybe I will actually do that. I always wanted to do it in 3e, but I never did, because 3e charts looked more like this after a few levels:

1-10, air
11-21, magical plate armor
21-26, magical shield
27-28, ring of protection
29-31, amulet of natural armor
32, dexterity bonus
33+, check for the half a dozen protective spells the party uses, otherwise, hit.
 

I have a radical suggestion.

3e's structure of abilities and combat facilitates more verisimilitude and more realism (with a level of abstraction via hit points and iterative attacks).

4e's structure of abilities and combat facilitates cinematic and tactical tastes, without too much realism.

Play the edition which suits you?
 

Compare it to a soccer player. He can use his Power "Pass" at will, which allows him to pass the ball to an ally, but attempt the power "Dream Goal", which lets him break the game, just once per day.
 

That old chestnut about past editions of D&D paying verisimilitude heed is bunk. D&D has never fostered verisimilitude, from its assumptions that all inhabitants of the world had a PC class (an assumption not explicitly dumped until D&D 3x) or that all members of a given race possess identical attributes to the ideas that armor makes you harder to hit (rather than damage) or that physical health never declines but, rather, gets continually stronger as you age (ostensibly addressed in D&D 3x, but not satisfactorily so IMO).

I probably shouldn't reply, but:

A huge number of the Dragon articles in the 1970's and 1980's dealt with the game-design topic of "realism vs. playability". People were constantly trying to add new rules to make D&D more realistic in perceived ways, and the main barrier was how many rules made it no longer playable. This was the primary game-design goal for 20 years until the "balance" fetish came on the scene.

The general NPC population all through 1E, 2E and BXCMI were in fact all classless ("normal men"; per 1E DMG, only 1 in 100 humans could attain a PC class). Members of a given race did not have identical attributes -- hit points varied, specifications for leaders with more hit dice always appeared, etc. (something I loved about D&D as opposed to other game systems that really did have identical stats for a given race). Physical health certainly could decline with age if investigated closely (see Gygax's Dragon stats for Conan at different ages -- sure enough, his level & hit points go up to age 40, then decline after that).

Frankly, there's a jaw-dropping amount of revisionist history going on from the 4E camp this year. Your kind of observations don't remotely match what I know of early D&D, nor the reactions of people that I introduce it to at this time.
 

I have a radical suggestion.

3e's structure of abilities and combat facilitates more verisimilitude and more realism (with a level of abstraction via hit points and iterative attacks).

4e's structure of abilities and combat facilitates cinematic and tactical tastes, without too much realism.

Play the edition which suits you?
I'm sorry, but all the heretics must be brought in line with the viewpoint of any given poster, or be fed to the flame.
 

At least until they've blown their wad of dailies... and then they're out of luck until the PCs sleep on it. Why then, should the ability to take narrative control be based on the ability to sleep it off? Why not have it be a resource based on the game session? Or the character's level? Or some other mechanic of stored-up hero points?

Why should the ability to take "narrative control" be granted only to martial exploters and not controllers who use completely different (and splashier) magical effects for their dailies and not just making use of some fantastical opportunity to cause harm to the target?

Sleep is giving narrative control to the DM. In the time the characters, sleep off, everything can happen. Guards can be reorganized, Assassins be hired, virgins be sacrificed.

So, the least the game can do is give the players some of their control back, in the hope they can turn the tide despite all the things the DM could have reasonably allowed to happen in those 6h of Extended Rest.
 

A huge number of the Dragon articles in the 1970's and 1980's dealt with the game-design topic of "realism vs. playability". People were constantly trying to add new rules to make D&D more realistic in perceived ways, and the main barrier was how many rules made it no longer playable. This was the primary game-design goal for 20 years until the "balance" fetish came on the scene.
I subscribed to The Dragon during this period, and I really don't think that's a fair characterization.

I'm not sure "hey, here's 72 more polearms" is really realism per se, so much as it was indulging a segment of the gaming community's love of super-obscure weaponry. Columns like "The Whole Half-Ogre" or the Cloistered Cleric added more options, but since neither half-ogres nor spellcasting clerics exist in our world, I'm not sure either qualifies as realism. There were seemingly endless attempts to remake the bard and druid, but they were aimed at the goal of being more fun, not being more realistic.

(Which is, incidentally, where the "fetish" of balance comes from: Everyone at the table should have an equal amount of fun, not just be the sidekicks to the guy who got to play the super-awesome character. As a game design goal to sneer at, everyone having more fun is a pretty strange choice.)

Other well-remembered articles, like "The 7 Sentence NPC" (reprinted in Paizo's wonderful Dragon compilation), the 9 Hells and the incredibly influential "_____ Point of View" series were about fleshing out the game world in a way that was, again, about it being more interesting and more fun, not more realistic. (The 7 Sentence NPC in particular doesn't worry about things like realism, so much as it's about creating cool and memorable NPCs on the fly.)

In fact, in truth, I have a hard time remembering any articles from this period that were about more realism -- they certainly didn't make it into the Best of the Dragon anthologies -- and they certainly weren't a dominant design philosophy in the magazine.

The general NPC population all through 1E, 2E and BXCMI were in fact all classless ("normal men"; per 1E DMG, only 1 in 100 humans could attain a PC class).
Which, as a realism example, doesn't work either: Where did that number come from? What was it based on? I don't know that any philosopher, historian or sociologist of note would come up with a 1:100 ratio, even if they subscribed to the notion that only certain people are capable of extraordinary lives.

Members of a given race did not have identical attributes -- hit points varied, specifications for leaders with more hit dice always appeared, etc.
Also not realistic. Bullets do not have a harder time killing a general than they do a private.

Physical health certainly could decline with age if investigated closely (see Gygax's Dragon stats for Conan at different ages -- sure enough, his level & hit points go up to age 40, then decline after that).
And that's certainly present through 3E. I haven't seen an age chart in the 4E books yet (I have an 11-month-old, so protracted reading time is mostly a memory for me at this point), and if it's not, it should be added back in, and I'm sure will be by third party publishers and maybe even WotC as well.

Frankly, there's a jaw-dropping amount of revisionist history going on from the 4E camp this year. Your kind of observations don't remotely match what I know of early D&D, nor the reactions of people that I introduce it to at this time.
I've been playing since 1979, and my dad had photocopies of all of the original booklets in the house before then (which I pored over, even if I didn't have anyone to play with at first), and your memories don't match mine, either.

I think it's a little much to accuse others of revisionist history, based on your declarations of what sort of content predominated in the first 15 years of The Dragon.
 

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