Does anyone actually like Dragonborn and Tieflings?

[The Green Adam]

I'm confused by the disconnect between "I like things that are different, but not these two particular races" and "they should use only basic traditional races".

Please quote my post where I say the line "they should use only basic traditional races". Please.

I understand that you dislike these "exotic" choices, but I don't understand why you jump to the conclusion that any "exotic" race is a bad idea.

Again. Shown me that exact wording.

I especially don't understand that in the light of modern fantasy games like World of Warcraft where people love to play undead, minotaurs, trolls, orcs, and blue space demons. Even if particular people don't enjoy WoW, it's pretty clear to me that modern fantasy fans are open to more than just the Tolkienesque traditions - I didn't hear anyone wailing and gnashing their teeth over the ugly, diminutive elves in Harry Potter because they're not Tolkien's elves.

Er...no, why would they. The elves of Harry Potter fit into the Harry Potter world and they're more like the traditional folklore version of elves.

Undead would've been cool, trolls too. Its what I would prefer. Its also easier for non-gamers to get a hang of...

Gamer: "You could be an elf."

Non-gamer: "Like my character in WoW (or Everquest, or Vanguard, etc.) or Orlando Bloom in Lord of the Rings?"

Gamer: "Pretty much, yeah."

Instead of...

Gamer: "You could be a Tiefling."

Non-gamer: "A what?"

The big difference is I say how I feel. You seem to say that I'm telling you how it MUST BE! Also you seem to indicate its not ok for me to feel this way.

AD

 

[jensun]

I just feel that the two species don't really fit D&D as I think of it and I definitely don't like the way the art for them looks.......I don't think I've ever used a Tieflings of any kind in any campaign ever. Nor do I recall every encountering one as a player. Cat people, Dog people, Centaurs, Fauns, Talking Animals, Goblins, Sentient Golems/Warforged, Homonculi-like wizardcrafted creatures and even a Futuristic Android Solider...but never a Tiefling.

FR has had something similar to the tieflings around for a while, the Fey'ri which are pretty equivalent.

Also, if you dont bat your eyes at cat people, dog people or fauns I am not sure why someone touched by infernal/demonic/cthullian/fae powers issuch a leap.

Dragonborn are somewhat similar to half dragons from 3e and dear god we saw a lot of them so its hardly surpising they become a core race.

 

[The Green Adam]

FR has had something similar to the tieflings around for a while, the Fey'ri which are pretty equivalent.

Also, if you dont bat your eyes at cat people, dog people or fauns I am not sure why someone touched by infernal/demonic/cthullian/fae powers issuch a leap.

Dragonborn are somewhat similar to half dragons from 3e and dear god we saw a lot of them so its hardly surpising they become a core race.

You have a point on that take on the Dragonborn. I still don't like the visuals though. Also, I tried to keep Half-Dragons special, like such a thing only occured once in a Blue Moon.

I'm not sure what it is about the Tiefling I don't like. I think I just look at them and go, "Why isn't that a Faun or a Lamia or something." Does anoyone know where the term 'Tief' originated or is it just made up?

AD

 

[jensun]

According to wikipedia* Tieflings first turned up in Planescape, possibly around 1994. They also seem to have been in The Planeswalkers Handbook in 1996, written by none other than Monte Cook.

The art is quite different than in previous versions but the basic idea remains mostly the same. Personally I like their backstory but will be toning down their appearance, removing the big bulky tails and reducing the size of the horns.




*Yes, I know Wikipedia is a terrible resource and as an academic I am required to oppose its use in all forms but its handy for this sort of stuff.

 

[lutecius]

Tieflings would make an ok player race if they didn't look so ugly/stupid (and no, it's not a trivial issue when i can't open the phb without seeing a red elephant-man face or alligator tail)

Dragonborn looks dorky too. Tail-less and dreadlocked? (it took me a while to realize they had the Predator hairdo, maybe i was just trying not to look at them). Seriously, how could anyone possibly think those looks were a good idea?
But even if they looked better, dragon people as pc simply don't fit the kind of campaigns i like.

I do agree that dnd should depart from the tolkien races, though.
A good start would be to axe the halfling, or merge it with gnome and dwarf. I've never felt the need for several short pc races.
Halflings often look like young gnomes, and gnomes like old halflings.
And I like the idea of dwarves as bulky "mine gnomes" or "booze gnomes".
Dnd also lacks a big non-furry/scaley pc race. If possible a toned down ogre rather than a half-whatever.

 

[Jackelope King]

I've always sort of liked tieflings. Dragonborn I'm relatively indifferent on. I'm still glad to see something other than the typical fantasy races, though (loved most of the critters from the 3.5 XPH, for instance).

 

[The Human Target]

Tieflings I used to like, but I'm not a big fan of their mechanics, or their new status as a true breeding race. Now I'm kind of meh on em.

Dragonborn I didn't think I would like, but I ended up doing so.

 

[Byronic]

Dragonborn and Tieflings just don't do anything for me. It's not because they're not archetypical, but they just don't do anything for me.

I find the idea of Tieflings too Catholic in many ways. Not the amusing way as done in Hellblazer but simply boring. I don't like the "oh we're bad because of something someone 10.000 years ago did" thought. I'm not that much fan of the tail, the horns and I especially don't like the general writing about them. They just flatout bore me. I might have liked them if I read their planescape material but I haven't.

I'm replacing them with Melniboneans. They're close enough in fiction to Tieflings, they had a pact with otherworldly powers. They had an evil empire that was either destroyed or declined. They both are intelligent races. One of the beautiful differences is the psychology of the creature. While Tieflings are written as people trying to conqure a dark side that I just don't see in them (at least not more then any othe creature) Melniboneans are as a people rather devoid of the softer emotions. In fact it is very rare for one to actually fall in love (some have become famous for such an act) Would be rare for someone to play one like Elric, one of the few of his kind with actual emotions.

I just have to decide whether they have +2 in Wisdom or Charisma... and if Wis if I should let them use Wisdom instead of Charisma with pacts. And how to describe their psychology in such a way that wouldn't result in silly PCs

I'm somewhere between indifferent to dislike when it comes to the Dragonborn. Their sole redeeming feature is that having them in the party means PCs possibly living longer and being better against Minions. As a race they do me nothing. Perhaps if they wrote something as to the difference between Dragonborn and Dragons? Strangely enough I like Lizardmen (although copied from warhammer) but Dragonborn? Nothing, blank, totally uninspiring. It's nice that 4ed sales have gone up because people apparently like the thought of them but they do me nothing.

I'll keep them in if any of the players want to play them. Otherwise they're rare. So rare they might never ever see one.

 

[Kesh]

I find the idea of Tieflings too Catholic in many ways. Not the amusing way as done in Hellblazer but simply boring. I don't like the "oh we're bad because of something someone 10.000 years ago did" thought.

Oh god, you finally gave me a reason to play a tiefling. I want to play an orthodox-religious tiefling of a lawful good god. He's not "making up for his ancestor's deeds" or wallowing in self-loathing. He just thinks his path is the right one, and is somewhat annoyed when people make the evil eye sign at him. "Really, as if that would protect you if I were demonspawn…"

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I like humans as PCs. I'm not hot on non-human PCs.