Does anyone actually like Dragonborn and Tieflings?

[The Green Adam]

Ah the arrogant and extremist notions of gaming fandom.

Sorry for writing a response with an opinion of any kind as it apparently promotes such responses as "heaven forfend they change the race line up at all" and "Blindly following tradition is bad". The questions was and remains "Does anyone actually like Dragonborn and Tieflings?" Now please tell me you sufficiently chastised the original poster for his use of actually. Y'know, just to be fair.

Its a matter of taste. I love change and I love the unusual. If you'd read any of my "30 Years of Weird" threads you'd know that I make it a point of trying bizarre and experimental campaign ideas.

I just feel that the two species don't really fit D&D as I think of it and I definitely don't like the way the art for them looks. There are Dragon Men in at least one of my old game worlds but they look, I guess, more like Dragons. Thinking back on it now, I don't think I've ever used a Tieflings of any kind in any campaign ever. Nor do I recall every encountering one as a player. Cat people, Dog people, Centaurs, Fauns, Talking Animals, Goblins, Sentient Golems/Warforged, Homonculi-like wizardcrafted creatures and even a Futuristic Android Solider...but never a Tiefling.

Now any and all of those aforementioned characters can be cool in a D&D game if the GM and players are into them...but I don't expect to see them in the basic, core rules. If WotC really wants to impress me then let's see a section on "Creating your own PC races and we encourage it".

AD

 

[The Green Adam]

Is Cthulhu medieval fantasy? Genies? Ogre-magi? The Sphinx? All were there at the game's Gygaxian beginnings. D&D has always incorporated as many other genres as it could. It was never meant to be LoTR the Role Playing Game.

I mean ... a floating eyeball that shoots rays at you?

I apologize for being to specific - I should of said 'any and all things of a vaguely mythical or legendary feel from a past period of human culture of a broadly traditional fantasy nature and atmosphere'.

This is why I like scifi.

AD

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Now any and all of those aforementioned characters can be cool in a D&D game if the GM and players are into them...but I don't expect to see them in the basic, core rules.

Please explain why it is important and necessary to restrict the core races to the Tolkienesque slate.

 

[The Green Adam]

Please explain why it is important and necessary to restrict the core races to the Tolkienesque slate.

Good grief! Is anyone actually reading my posts?!

Its not. I like things that are different. I just don't like these two species. I would have prefered they start with more basic species both fans and new comers could be familiar with but its ok that they put them in. Sorry again for giving an opinion and sharing.

I despise it when threads ask for your feelings on a subject and posters to said thread insist that your feelings are wrong in some way. EN Worlds getting a little inflexible for me these days.

AD

 

[Nifft]

And I can only conclude that those who are OK with Tieflings and Dragonborn must not have any sort of established campaign world. Because AFAIK, no campaign world supported these kinds of races before 4th edition. These two races have no place in my world.

Tieflings were already in my homebrew, as were playable Kobolds. Dragonborn = Lizardfolk, which are the same species as Kobolds IMC, but which were pretty much unplayable in 3.5e.

Nobody ever played a Gnome, despite my efforts to make them interesting. They effectively disappeared from my game before 4e.

My other main change is Halfling = Elf = Eladrin (all the same Fey race, you just get to choose a package of class features that suits you). When I have the details ironed out, I'll post the "consolidated" race.

The setting I use has Humans, Dwarves, Fey-dudes (Elf, Eladrin, Shadar-kai, Drow, Halfling, Pixie, etc.), Tieflings (and other hellishly mutated Humans like Yuan-ti & Gnolls), and Reptile-dudes (basically Kobolds & Lizardfolk-- Dragonborn).

Giants are a single race with elemental "castes" (Fire, Frost, Storm, etc.); similarly, Goblinoids are a single race.

Cheers, -- N

 

[The Green Adam]

Tieflings were already in my homebrew, as were playable Kobolds. Dragonborn = Lizardfolk, which are the same species as Kobolds IMC, but which were pretty much unplayable in 3.5e.

Nobody ever played a Gnome, despite my efforts to make them interesting. They effectively disappeared from my game before 4e.

My other main change is Halfling = Elf = Eladrin (all the same Fey race, you just get to choose a package of class features that suits you). When I have the details ironed out, I'll post the "consolidated" race.

The setting I use has Humans, Dwarves, Fey-dudes (Elf, Eladrin, Shadar-kai, Drow, Halfling, Pixie, etc.), Tieflings (and other hellishly mutated Humans like Yuan-ti & Gnolls), and Reptile-dudes (basically Kobolds & Lizardfolk-- Dragonborn).

Giants are a single race with elemental "castes" (Fire, Frost, Storm, etc.); similarly, Goblinoids are a single race.

Cheers, -- N

Very cool ideas. My Elves are descended from a Faerie people who were essentially marooned on my world. They eventually evolved into different groups (High/Mithral, Grey/Arcane, Sylvan/Wood, Drow/Dark, etc.) over exposure to the elements of our reality.

AD

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Its not. I like things that are different. I just don't like these two species. I would have prefered they start with more basic species both fans and new comers could be familiar with but its ok that they put them in. Sorry again for giving an opinion and sharing.

I'm confused by the disconnect between "I like things that are different, but not these two particular races" and "they should use only basic traditional races".

I don't understand why you think you're unusual among D&D players (current and potential) in personally liking more variety than the Tolkienesque default. I don't understand why you think the only workable or appropriate core races are the traditional ones. I understand that you dislike these "exotic" choices, but I don't understand why you jump to the conclusion that any "exotic" race is a bad idea.

I especially don't understand that in the light of modern fantasy games like World of Warcraft where people love to play undead, minotaurs, trolls, orcs, and blue space demons. Even if particular people don't enjoy WoW, it's pretty clear to me that modern fantasy fans are open to more than just the Tolkienesque traditions - I didn't hear anyone wailing and gnashing their teeth over the ugly, diminutive elves in Harry Potter because they're not Tolkien's elves.

 

[jensun]

Am I just a grognard, or are Dragonborn and, to a lesser degree, Tieflings universally despised? Both seem more "kewl" than "cool", more post-2000 World of Warcraft-esque fantasy than classic Lord of the Rings fantasy or New Wave Talislanta-esque weird fantasy.

I have been playing since BECMI. I dont see either races being universally despised. Post 2000 WoW is a bit of a misnomer since its only been around since 2005.

Tieflings have been around since at least 2nd edition.

Dragonborn were effectively first seen in Dragonlance.

I like the inclusion of both races and am happy to use both. Both races are appearing as key races in my first game and I will be using some of their background fiction.

 

[Ruslanchik]

Tieflings are pretty cool. I like the idea of demonic blood because it brings in so much backstory and RP potential. They should have brought Aasimar into the PHB too, to balance the scales a bit. I don't like the direction they are going by offering what has always been an evil-leaning race to players in the PHB, especially if they do not offer a good-leaning race to balance it.

I am typically an opponent of genocide, but would support it in the case of the dragonborn. I really bad idea that just taints 4E for me.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

... more post-2000 World of Warcraft-esque fantasy than classic Lord of the Rings fantasy or New Wave Talislanta-esque weird fantasy...

This is precisely why I like them. I'm honestly tired of humanocentric Tolkeinesque fantasy. I like that they have a place in the world. I like them in general.

-TRRW