Disarm rules

[keterys]

The best example is the removal of exp loss from death.

Not sure I see what that has to do with realism.

Honestly, I'd rather no one got a disarm power. It's too swingy in how much it matters, potentially crippling some foes completely while doing nothing to others.

Just give penalties to attack, stun, etc. I did make a power that gave you a penalty unless you gave up your weapon, signifying that your blade was trapped or you were off balance unless you dropped it. Lets the people it's too big a deal for hang on, and the people it's okay for get disarmed.

 

[generalhenry]

Not sure I see what that has to do with realism.

'realistically' death should cost you more than a two minute corpse run.

In previous editions D&D it cost you a full level.

In 4E it's a -1 penalty for the next few encounters.

 

[Felon]

4E is designed to be a successful game.

It borrows a lot of design from the most successful RPG World of Warcraft.

A large part World of Warcraft's success comes from Blizzard's decision to remove 'realism' in favor of making the game fun.

This sounds like a generic form-letter response. Blizzard didn't make a decision to remove realistic rules for doings things like disarming because it's "unfun" in some way. There was no decision of any kind; it's a computer game and your options are limited to executing hotkey commands. If you're going to copy someone successful, just copy what they do better than you. Don't discard an advantage you actually have over them.

 

[keterys]

Just so it's said... you can disarm in WoW

 

[generalhenry]

There was no decision of any kind

They could have coded disarm effects in wow to give your weapon to the other player.

But they didn't, disarm effects in wow only prevent use of your weapon for a short duration.


That's not a technical constraint. It's a design choice.


The 4E designers faced very similar design choices.

just copy what they do better than you.

That's what WoTC did. They copied WoW design. Listen to the podcasts, the 4E designers talk about it.

Don't discard an advantage you actually have over them.

But do discard disadvantages.

Not every mechanism is a feature. I consider sunder to have been a Bug.

 

[generalhenry]

Just so it's said... you can disarm in WoW

True, but it's like silence. You get better right afterward, and hybrids can use their other abilities in the mean time.

 

[Allensh]

And you can disarm in 4e too. Its already in the rules...that section in the DMG that tells how to adjudicate things the rules don't specifically cover.

Rather than worrying about there being no specific rules for disarming...just say you want to disarm. The DM sets a DC for the attempt (or makes it an opposed roll) and away you go.

W've got a lot of work to undo the reliance on "a rule for everything" that 3e bred into people...

Allen

 

[chitzk0i]

4E is designed to be a successful game.

It borrows a lot of design from the most successful RPG World of Warcraft.

A large part World of Warcraft's success comes from Blizzard's decision to remove 'realism' in favor of making the game fun.

The best example is the removal of exp loss from death.

4E borrows almost no design from World of Warcraft. 4E does borrow a few ideas, like that one Warlock Paragon Path with the soul crystals (eerily similar to a major feature of WoW warlocks) and the physical residue of disenchanting magic items. But come on! WoW's archetypal play experience is "tank and spank": the party fights one monster. The tank taunts this monster, because no one else can survive more than two or three hits. The tank takes so much damage, someone's job is to stand around and heal him. Everyone else hurts the monster. 4E has a totally different philosphy.

If 4E "borrowed a lot of design" from WoW, resistance wouldn't just be a number, it would be a rating that you would compare to your level and then look up in a table to determine your chance to avoid 25, 50, 75 or 100 percent of the attack's damage. If 4E "borrowed a lot of design" from WoW, one of its base stats would do absolutely nothing for 90% of characters, but bonuses to that stat would still be on a ton of gear. If 4E "borrowed a lot of design" from WoW, fighters with shields would have the damage output of a two-year-old.

 

[generalhenry]

4E borrows almost no design from World of Warcraft.

ranger = hunter
fighter = warrior
paladin = paladin
wizard = mage
rogue = rogue
warlock = warlock
laser cleric = priest
warlord... well that one doesn't borrow from wow.

4E tiefling = draenei

And that's just some of the obvious ones. It goes down to the basic design philosophy.

the party fights one monster. The tank taunts this monster, because no one else can survive more than two or three hits. The tank takes so much damage, someone's job is to stand around and heal him. Everyone else hurts the monster.

You just described a Solo encounter in 4E. The only difference is that 4E ditched pure healers.

a rating

and armor would be logarithm based. It would solve a lot of problems. However it's more math that most people can do in their heads.

Besides that's a mechanic. I'm talking about design. Solo, elite, etc.. that's design.

If 4E "borrowed a lot of design" from WoW, one of its base stats would do absolutely nothing for 90% of characters, but bonuses to that stat would still be on a ton of gear. If 4E "borrowed a lot of design" from WoW, fighters with shields would have the damage output of a two-year-old.

If WotC had brainless hacks that copied WoW's mechanics then yes. Fortunately WotC has competent designers who copied design without copying flawed mechanics.

 

[keterys]

ranger = hunter
fighter = warrior
paladin = paladin
wizard = mage
rogue = rogue
warlock = warlock
laser cleric = priest

Just to verify, is this like how Lord of the Rings is based on Star Wars again?

Stupid D&D stealing the idea for arcane missiles from WoW. And calling it Magic Missile, too. How obvious a ripoff can you get?