D&D 4E d20 Modern 4E - I want it!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

To plug myself again, I just posted a blog entry showing some ideas on shields (deflector shields, not tower shields )

 

[Andor]

There are little hard facts regarding a d20 Modern version of 4E. The last thing I remember is the report on the Open Gaming License for 4E that indicated that while the 4E D&D OGL will be more restrictive (enforcing the need of PHB), but later licenses - like for d20 Modern - would not.

So, that gives me a definite hope that there will be a 4E D20 Modern.

Personally, I hope we don't have to wait too long for it. I want it sooner than later (assuming off course that I am not negatively surprised by 4E - but maybe even then).

But I wonder - how will a d20 Modern 4E look? How could it look like?

4E emphasizes the "role" of a class.
d20 Modern for 4E had the six "ability score" classes (Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated and Charismatic Hero). They don't really fit into the role concept (and I think this showed as a weakness in the long run). Sure, you can find a role for each of these classes, but there seems to be little place for a Controller, and the Striker role seems to limited to Fast.

So, will we instead go an even more "generic" route of 4 classes - one for each role?

The implied setting and the PoL concept of 4E also beg the question how this will work in a modern enviromnent? The real world hardly fits the Points of Light concept. What alternate concepts exist to make the modern world a place suitable for adventuring?

What I see is a d20 Modern putting more emphasis on non-combat stuff. In the real world, killing monsters and taking their stuff isn't that appropriate. Things that seem more "sensible"
- "Shadowrun"-Style breaking and entering, but preferably without ending up gunning down half the guards Or Oceans Eleven style...
- Investigations (Call of Cthulhu, X-Files, Sherlock Holmes, Veronica Mars & CSI)
- can't think of more in the moment, but maybe the above are a bit to generic?

There also some combat options:
- Hunting monsters (Special Units 2 or Buffy/Angel)
- Military/Mercenary campaigns (Jagged Alliance-videogamey perhaps?)

And then, there is the concept of super heroes...

What I think would be good for the success of d20 Modern would be an interesting (even if only implied) setting. Maybe Dark*Matter again? I think that's one of the hardest parts to pull off, there are so many things that one can make of a "modern" setting, and it seems to invite a lot more homebrewing. An implied setting that is vague enough to allow a CoC/Special Unit2/Buffy/Veronica Mars/Oceans Elven/CSI all in the same game and evoking enough of each seems hard to do.
Maybe the 4E idea of "Tiers" can also be transposed here. "Heroic" becomes "Mundane" - people rarely notice any aliens or monsters around, but in the "Mystical" tier, we get there, and finally, in the "Superhero" tier (or theme?), we get things that can be as strange and supernatural as you want...

What in the Holy Name of God makes you think 4e is suitable for the modern genre? What trait does it possess that makes you think "Huh. I bet you this would be a much better game than D20 Modern for (Spy games, war games, drama, action, political thrillers, supernatural horror, near-future, post-apocalyptic survival, cyberpunk intrigue or high school hijinks)."

In what way does a mix of at-will, encounter, and daily powers better model your own life as a (computer programmer, professional wrestler, long-haul trucker, alligator wrangler, librarian or park ranger) than a mix of finely tuned skills/feats and class abilities?

I realize this is going to page 4, but I couldn't get past the first post without screaming "Why would you want it!?!"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What in the Holy Name of God makes you think 4e is suitable for the modern genre? What trait does it possess that makes you think "Huh. I bet you this would be a much better game than D20 Modern for (Spy games, war games, drama, action, political thrillers, supernatural horror, near-future, post-apocalyptic survival, cyberpunk intrigue or high school hijinks)."

In what way does a mix of at-will, encounter, and daily powers better model your own life as a (computer programmer, professional wrestler, long-haul trucker, alligator wrangler, librarian or park ranger) than a mix of finely tuned skills/feats and class abilities?

I realize this is going to page 4, but I couldn't get past the first post without screaming "Why would you want it!?!"

This post is deeply hilarious, and deeply sad.

First off, it's very sad, because the poster thinks current d20 Modern is actually any good, compared to say, almost any other system, at any of those genres. It's not, imo, and I think sales reflect that. I'd say it's terrible and clumsy at all of the ones you've mentioned.

Secondly, it's deeply hilarious, because the poster thinks a level-based d20 game with ugly, simplistic classes, skill ranks and terrible PrCs can "model your own life". The level of "out there"-ness is extreme. In no possibly way can d20 Modern "model" any real person's life. Anyway, gave me a smile.

It's sad for another reason, too, because the poster admits he's too something (lazy, freaked-out, crazed? It's unclear) to actually read the thread, or even all of the OP's post, and just demands an explanation be served up to him.

Let me explain, then:

4E's design, with At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers, with HP re-envisioned/clarified and with Healing Surges, Second Wind, and non-magical "heal"-type abilities is extremely strong for a cinematic-style modern-day action-adventure RPG. The powers can model various cinematic abilities (Daily abilities, for example, would be stuff that you see once or twice in a movie, for example, the classic "twirl and shoot everyone nearby" from various Hong Kong movies), and the healing surges etc. allow you to get a nice "Die Hard"-type effect.

The simplified skill system works as well or better, for a cinematic-style game, than the old d20 Modern system.

The only things from 4E I can't see working, myself, are the obsession with "tactical" combat, and minis and a battlemat. Everything else? No reason why it couldn't be used to create a great, exciting cinematic action game that was more accessible and fun that d20 Modern dared to dream of being.

 

[Aldarc]

I also think that some of the concepts of 4E would be great for a Modern/Future series, and it would definitely require reworking. But it would be nice, as previously mentioned, to have a Modern game to run something akin to Stargate SG-1. It would especially be nice to bring back backgrounds to provide supplementary bonus feats and skills for characters, though some were clearly more favored than others (especially those that gave firearms proficiencies).

 

[Greg K]

4E's design, with At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers, with HP re-envisioned/clarified and with Healing Surges, Second Wind, and non-magical "heal"-type abilities

The simplified skill system works..

All the things that you mentioned are mechanics that make 4e utter crap- especially when taking into some third party innovations for d20M. The only decent idea that you mentioned from 4e (and there are a few other good ideas) was Second Wind and the designers couldn't even do that right. So, please keep the garbage that are the specific 4e mechanics you mentioned away from d20M.

That all said, there are a couple of minor mechanics that I would not mind seeing from 4e. You just did not mention them.

 

[CountPopeula]

I think it might be better if the next D20 Modern were more focused and presented with more of an implied setting.

I would be beyond shocked if D20 Modern 2e was anything other than Urban Arcana 2e.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

All the things that you mentioned are mechanics that make 4e utter crap.

No. It makes the system very playable and makes it easy to balance. Sure, if you're more interested in "simulating" the real modern world with maybe some FX sprinkled in, it might be the wrong approach.
But that's not what I want of a new d20 Modern. I want a so called "gamist" system that supports high action, but also provides more room then 4E for non-combat gamist mechanics - "Skill Challenges Deluxe", possibly.

Just having had a session of Torg again, I can only say that's the direction I wan to go. Metagame mechanics for players introducing sub plots, dramatic skill resolution system, hey, and even the ability to use things like "Trick", "Taunt" or "Intimidate" as valid combat options that are just as useful as firearms, swords and martial arts.

Others will want different concepts. But I actually believe that there are more players that will enjoy a 4E-like system then those that like a d20 Modern "1.0" system in the long run.

 

[Nadaka]

Crazy as it sounds. I want to increase BOTH gamist and simulationist aspects of modern.. But only a few of the changes I want to see come from 4e.

 

[rbingham2000]

I can see a good list of powers being written up for various weapons. We've got plenty of stuff for the melee powers, but stuff like pistols, shotguns, submachine guns and assault rifles are going to have different powers associated with them. Someone who uses pistols as a weapon of choice, for example, brings to mind a John Woo style gunslinger type, while an assault rifle brings to mind someone a bit more military or paramilitary-oriented. Know what I mean?

 

[Ranger REG]

I think the A-Team is probably the best example of a D&D 4 Modern campaign, since all of the main characters are competent in combat and also have something to do outside of combat.

But then, not all "modern" campaigns fit the A-Team model. Or do they?

No, but we do need a setting for the game rules. After all, that's how D&D was promoted and rose to the success it now has been ... well, up to 3rd Edition.

Later on we can add new settings for people who want something different.

Personally, I'd start with Dark*Matter.