So THAT's why Regdar gets no love...

[beepeearr]

This is the picture from the PHB, if you'll look closely at the eyes and face you can tell it's the same picture as from the novel cover, but with the shading a bit lighter. And by the way neither Italians or Spanish started off with dark hair and darker complexion, it wasn't until after the Moors (arabic) invaded southern Europe and occupied and interbred with the natives that they took on those features. Before that they were pale haired and mostly fair skinned. And hispanics by the way are nothing more then Native American (be it meso, or south american) mixed with european (ie spanish) stock in the first place. So either way, regardless of whether they were designed to look Hispanic or Mediteranean they wouldn't be entirely european in either case.

And by the way Asians can have pale skin, it doesn't make them white. I think they made her pale because of the whole pierced goth look she had going on, I doubt it was to make her look more white.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

This is the picture from the PHB, if you'll look closely at the eyes and face you can tell it's the same picture as from the novel cover, but with the shading a bit lighter.

The face of Hennet on the novel cover has been redrawn. In the Player's Handbook he's looking at the viewer, on the novel he's looking at the magic in his hand, and his face has been redrawn to darken his skin and make him look more Asian.

In the original, he doesn't look particularly anything, but his skin is quite light.

I'm aware of the historical reasons why various southern European cultures look darker than northern Europeans, but the point is the impression of the modern viewer, and to a modern viewer, Italians/Spanish/Mediterranean French are known for dark hair and eyes - and they're still considered "white" or "European" in ethnicity.

When people say they'd like to see more non-white people in D&D illustrations, they don't just mean "non-Nordic". They mean "people that don't look like white Americans/Britons/Australians/whatever", and white Westerners are descended from people all over Europe - Scandinavia, Germany, the Mediterranean, the British Isles.

 

[MrApothecary]

I think you ahve a seriously deluded idea of the thoughts of most gamers. It would have seriously hurt sales. Tordek wouldn't have.

Really, you think so? Really, the most they'd do is ignore her like some people ignore Regdar and look at the other iconics. The vast majority wouldn't go "Oh, my God! This black chick appears with some frequency! I won't be playing this game anymore." Normal people don't think like that.

No, Tordek wouldn't have. But he'd probably have the loyal fanbase like us grumbling "stereotypical dwarf fighters everywhere." While Ember most certainly wouldn't have people complaining about the frequent use of black woman monks, due to the fact that there is nothing frequent about them.

 

[beepeearr]

Hennet is asian, here's another look

The PHB picture just has the shading washed out.

Most hispanics I know who play D&D where thrilled by Alhandra and Kerwyn, they didn't see them as being europeans, but as Hispanics. You say you want racial diversity in the art, but then say it isn't diverse enough, because the character still appears to of european descent. All true hispanics are of european descent, those who are not, are not hispanic, but from Native american stock instead. And there are a lot more Hispanics who play D&D then Mayans by the way.

 

[Helfdan]

It seems to me that WotC tried to get people to care about the characters, thus the novels and the CGI movie (which was actually pretty good, a lot of fun to watch all possible endings). They were obviously not as successful at this as they would have liked... probably because the setting was so vague. The only thing that connected the stories was the presence of the characters, who would cameo in the other iconics' novels.

Having said that, I have to say I kinda liked Regdar, meaning how he was portrayed in the novels and movie -- whatever his true ethnicity may be

 

[roguerouge]

Sure, Seoni's got a nice rack, but who are these other schmoes? For me, at least, not only are the iconics completely irrelevant, it's getting to the point that it could be seen that we're getting them shoved down our throats (the aforementioned prominent ruining of covers along with two wasted pages of - again, irrelevant - stats of these nobodies in the book itself).

Yeah, because nobody on the Paizo forums went bananas over Seelah, the black female paladin with the tear-inducing backstory. And the GNOME druid? Completely not playing to the third edition crowd.

 

[roguerouge]

Also, even though you also have a white, male, human fighter as the "first" iconic, and he is perhaps the least interesting or memorable of them, he at least has the merit of not having a ridiculous chin-beard

Not according to a number of women on Paizo's boards. They think he's hot, with those doe eyes and manly scars.

Oh, how I hates him!

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The PHB picture just has the shading washed out.

He doesn't look Asian in the Player's Handbook, for whatever reason. Maybe that's why they had his face redrawn for the novel cover! But the fact remains.

Most hispanics I know who play D&D where thrilled by Alhandra and Kerwyn, they didn't see them as being europeans, but as Hispanics.

That's great, but, you know, most Hispanic people I've ever met or seen on TV were a lot browner-skinned than the could-easily-pass-for-Spanish-or-Italian iconics. So, I will definitely concede that you can read Alhandra and Kerwyn as Hispanic, but you can also read them as just European, and I don't think the ambiguity is really a good sign.

Hell, we're arguing about how to interpret the illustrations - how could it not be better to have unambiguously non-Caucasian characters in the artwork? If Hennet in the Player's Handbook looked like the novel cover, or the sketch you posted there, instead of the whitewashed version actually printed, I think everyone* would be a lot happier.

Ember is unambiguous: no-one argues about her ethnicity. I'm just saying I'd like to have seen these arguably Asian and Hispanic iconic characters painted as obviously Asian or Hispanic. That's all.

* Except racists and other jerks who don't want Asian-looking people in their D&D books.

 

[Ahglock]

What this is, however, is Cook explaining that the marketing team forced the creative team to make the lead iconic a white male human, because they have this stupid idea that white males will be appealed by him more. Which seems silly to me, this is a roleplaying game.

It's funny to me, but to me I read the creative team tried to go around the marketing team and do marketing the creative team way. And then the marketing team took back what was there job.

Art and covers are there to grab the attention of the guy walking by. It is mainly a marketing tool.

 

[Voadam]

Hennet is asian, here's another look

The PHB picture just has the shading washed out.

Most hispanics I know who play D&D where thrilled by Alhandra and Kerwyn, they didn't see them as being europeans, but as Hispanics.

Who is Kerwyn?