The trouble with 365_Bazaar

[Obscure]

Re: Fortified armor

At epic levels, it basically grants immunity to fear effects that allow a saving throw, once per day. I don't think it's terribly overpowered...?

 

[Rechan]

I did notice that it looks like all of the staff descriptions have a typo - PHB always describes the power as "When you use a power with X, do Y also" - Bazaar article says "When you would use a power with X, do Y".

The key word there is also. Think about it. With the PHB powers, the descriptor is X + Y. The Bazaar powers very well likely are Y instead of X.

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

The key word there is also. Think about it. With the PHB powers, the descriptor is X + Y. The Bazaar powers very well likely are Y instead of X.

Did you read them? That seems unlikely to me. Is the power you 'would have used' expended? In the case of the staff of draconic power what attack would they be referring to when they say "after resolving the attack".

Incedentally I hadn't thought this phrasing was confusing until this reply so I added it to the list once I saw that some people actually were confused by it.

 

[James McMurray]

That's the way I understood it ... it does seem like a huge total bonus. Does this seem wrong to people? SHould I add it to the list?

It's level 29 epic armor that kinda makes you immune to one fear effect per day, if you use one of your daily item slots for it. It doesn't seem unbalanced at all.

If it were constant, or usable repeatedly, then maybe it would be. That would depend on the amount of fear effects that allow saves which appear in the campaign.

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

It's level 29 epic armor that kinda makes you immune to one fear effect per day, if you use one of your daily item slots for it. It doesn't seem unbalanced at all.

If it were constant, or usable repeatedly, then maybe it would be. That would depend on the amount of fear effects that allow saves which appear in the campaign.

Do you have any issues with how I've listed it? Looking closer at the item I do suspect that the property bonus should be an item bonus and not untyped.

 

[James McMurray]

I can't say what they intended, but as written works for me. A clarification wouldn't hurt, but that's true of many WotC rules.

 

[ozziewolf]

Agreed, assuming it is intentional. However since this is a new application of the rule about immediate actions only being able to be take during an opponents turn, I think a side bar would be a good idea. It should remind people about the limitation using on immediate action on your turn and give an example of how these weapons power are meant to be used. For example Impaling Weapon could be used with a Readied Attack, or Commander's Strike, not just an opportunity attack.

That part of the rules isn't new. You've never been able to use immediate actions during your turn. The rules itself is still very clear about immediate actions.

The only new part is having it as a requirement for a weapon ability. Whether or not the rules of immediate actions where intended to be used in conjunction with items is really what's in question and whether or not these items have been balanced with other items of similar power with it's limited use in mind.

As for Andors response no one said anything about there being no problems. I merely stated that only things that are actual problems should be listed and not just a wish list of things we would like to see. At which point a constructive discussion arose that clarified a different position on some of the abilities which I hadn't considered.

Your response was inflammatory and added nothing to the discussion.

As for why it's an immediate interrupt that's part of the current discussion as this hasn't been done with past items. If an item is more powerful than typical items its level I could see this being a good way to balance it. If they're merely equivalent it seems like something that should be scaled upwards.

 

[MarkB]

That part of the rules isn't new. You've never been able to use immediate actions during your turn.

That's not actually the case.

Immediate Actions

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time — even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

 

[Bagpuss]

That part of the rules isn't new. You've never been able to use immediate actions during your turn.

But mainly because in all cases in the PHB the trigger is caused by an action of your opponent. The new part is because for these items is the trigger is caused by the player's action directly.

The rules itself is still very clear about immediate actions.

Agreed. I just don't think it would come up very often except with these items. Because players tend to avoid provoking opportunity attacks and before these items that's the only time it could have come up since immediate actions were tied to defensive powers.

The only new part is having it as a requirement for a weapon ability.

More explicitly a player triggered ability. It would be the same problem if it was one a none weapon item.

Whether or not the rules of immediate actions where intended to be used in conjunction with items is really what's in question and whether or not these items have been balanced with other items of similar power with it's limited use in mind.

Agreed, but if that is what was intended I think that needs to be made clear, since it is a new application of the rule.

As for why it's an immediate interrupt that's part of the current discussion as this hasn't been done with past items. If an item is more powerful than typical items its level I could see this being a good way to balance it. If they're merely equivalent it seems like something that should be scaled upwards.

I think for Impaling Weapon it's a clever application of the rule, which gives flavour. I worry that it's perhaps a bit too clever, and maybe overlooked if only used in a limited number of places.

For Mind-Rending it could be the same intention, as Impaling Weapon, it's interesting how the both work for different amount of time, Impaling Weapon ending at that start of you next turn so you are free to move then. And Mind-Rending at the end of your next turn so you can take advantage of the dazed opponent.

For the Rod of Dragon's Heart I don't really see a reason to have it as an immediate action, if it is purely for balance I think it would be a better idea to increase the level of the item, rather than limit it's use in this way.

 

[hong]

The Final Word daily power seems really weak for the price. Maybe it should be an encounter power instead?