It only destroys verisimilitude because its clearly and obviously a game mechanic. Its also clearly and obviously a DM only game mechanic, and the DM, by the nature of his job, doesn't get to have verisimilitude.
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D&D 4E 4e's Inorganic Loot System: Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter Psychic Robot
- Start date
lukelightning
First Post
Yay.
In any treasure system you have to make sure you're not giving inappropriate treasure (not too much, not too little, etc.), so you might as well be up front about it.
In any treasure system you have to make sure you're not giving inappropriate treasure (not too much, not too little, etc.), so you might as well be up front about it.
Obryn
Hero
I've warmed to them. I think they work pretty well if you're going from an assumption that PCs will mostly be facing opponents within a few levels of their own. Most of the game works from that assumption, honestly... Which can be a lot of fun, but doesn't cleanly fit with a sandbox approach to D&D.
If you break the level-appropriate assumption - and I plan to, have no doubt - then obviously treasure will require some tweaking. I don't know that it'd be possible for a group of level 4 PCs to kill off an Ancient dragon, but if they did, I'd expect them to have treasure commensurate with their accomplishment.
-O
GoodKingJayIII
First Post
I don't think you are forced in any way to distribute items in a rigid and exacting fashion. You can mix up the item distribution any way you like. You could even ignore the recommendation to give out magic items entirely and instead distribute an equivalent amount of gold.
The only difference from previous editions is that the necessity of magic items is explicitly stated. Unless you want to make adjustments to the rules, you will need to give your players access to magical equipment in order for them to stay in line with standard encounter design.
malacapricornis
First Post
Disclaimer: Ultimately whatever you and your players have fun with, I suppose is the goal.
With that out of the way I like the measured nature of the 4E because, imo, challenge and risk is important in a game. If you are super "clever" and take out that ancient red at first level do you really deserve the full hoard of loot? I suppose it could work either way.
It's a problem for me because I do not think items should overpower the player. That to me is not fun for long.
Rolling for treasures and having huge surpluses of magic items is good if you have item destruction from failed saves, rust monsters, etc in the game. Otherwise PCs are much more powerful then their levels should indicate which means higher level encounters with corresponding treasures to try to provide challenge.
The parcel system, combined with insuring that the items fit the players and the metered encounter system, while artificial (much like the whole game for that matter) if followed with care should help enable a game that remains challenging.
Will exploits or breakdowns in the system occur? Of course. In a system of any sort of complexity with supplements coming out monthly via Dragon and Dungeon clever players and DMs will be able to figure out some very potent combos and rule exploits. This is where careful DMing in regards to balance and challenge is helpful.
With that out of the way I like the measured nature of the 4E because, imo, challenge and risk is important in a game. If you are super "clever" and take out that ancient red at first level do you really deserve the full hoard of loot? I suppose it could work either way.
It's a problem for me because I do not think items should overpower the player. That to me is not fun for long.
Rolling for treasures and having huge surpluses of magic items is good if you have item destruction from failed saves, rust monsters, etc in the game. Otherwise PCs are much more powerful then their levels should indicate which means higher level encounters with corresponding treasures to try to provide challenge.
The parcel system, combined with insuring that the items fit the players and the metered encounter system, while artificial (much like the whole game for that matter) if followed with care should help enable a game that remains challenging.
Will exploits or breakdowns in the system occur? Of course. In a system of any sort of complexity with supplements coming out monthly via Dragon and Dungeon clever players and DMs will be able to figure out some very potent combos and rule exploits. This is where careful DMing in regards to balance and challenge is helpful.
DracoSuave
First Post
I'm curious how players can exploit a system that's based on the concept: The DM is in full control.
Observation:
None of the treasure tables includes level 1 magic items.
Therefore, Level 1 magic items can only be had by players if they buy or make them on purpose.
Therefore, +1 magic swords are rare and collectors items.
Observation:
None of the treasure tables includes level 1 magic items.
Therefore, Level 1 magic items can only be had by players if they buy or make them on purpose.
Therefore, +1 magic swords are rare and collectors items.
Let's do a MMO comparision:
"regular MMO/old random treasure roll" way: You go slay the BBEG and get crap nobody in your party can use. So then you have to waste time selling it off (even if it turns into an adventure to sell it off....)
"WAR/parcel system" way: You slay the BBEG and will get something you can use.
IMHO, second way trumps first way everytime. With the parcel system and player input it is even a little better, don't have to go and kill 1,000,000 kobold minions in order to finally get that "Item of Uberness +4"
"regular MMO/old random treasure roll" way: You go slay the BBEG and get crap nobody in your party can use. So then you have to waste time selling it off (even if it turns into an adventure to sell it off....)
"WAR/parcel system" way: You slay the BBEG and will get something you can use.
IMHO, second way trumps first way everytime. With the parcel system and player input it is even a little better, don't have to go and kill 1,000,000 kobold minions in order to finally get that "Item of Uberness +4"
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I did and still do, at least as a starting point. I do this for the same reason I prefer to roll stats and hit points, they give me suggestions that I might not think up on my own. If I were to just pick the items, I might get into a rut and overlook some oddball items that help to liven up a campaign. I always retain the right to overrule the die roll, but I always start with it to generate ideas.
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