D&D 4E 4e's Inorganic Loot System: Yay or Nay?

[Psychic Robot]

I've been thinking about this one for a bit. On the one hand, I find the system distasteful because the idea of giving out loot in "parcels" completely destroys a large chunk verisimilitude that the game might have. On the other hand, players are just going to sell loot they don't need in exchange for items that they do need, so the system is effectively skipping over the middleman.

I can see both sides of the argument.

What are your thoughts on it?

EDIT: I should clarify, since my post seems to have caused a bit of confusion. It's not the parcels themselves that bother me; it's that they are distributed in an exacting manner of level X item, level X+1 item, level X+2 item, and so on.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I've been thinking about this one for a bit. On the one hand, I find the system distasteful because the idea of giving out loot in "parcels" completely destroys a large chunk verisimilitude that the game might have. On the other hand, players are just going to sell loot they don't need in exchange for items that they do need, so the system is effectively skipping over the middleman.

I can see both sides of the argument.

What are your thoughts on it?

Can you please explain how giving loot in parcels makes the game less believable? How else do you do it, a trail of coins? As for selling loot, I dont understand your point. Are you daying that with previous edditions you gave treasure that the PCs didnt need? Why?

 

[DLichen]

The loot system is in place for DMs to give out the stuff the PCs need and want at a "balanced" pace.

It's the DM's job to make the loot appear with versimilatude if the players demand that.

If the PCs clear out a goblin's den and one of the players wanted a magical set of small leather armor, have it appear on a dead body. If it's a flaming warhammer, have it appear in a treasure trove or as loot given out by a grateful blacksmith in town.

 

[ryryguy]

I have to play more to really tell how this feels in practice.

However, what exactly is it about the concept of "parcels" that bugs you? Having magic items chosen specifically so the PCs can use them - that I can understand as having a bad effect on versimilitude.

But why "parcels"? That's just a concept to help the DM... I don't really see how it will come through to the players as such. Some encounters have no treasure, some have a little (one parcel), some have a lot (multiple parcels). But the parcels don't all have equal monetary value even if you did give one per encounter always.

Is it that you always get 4 magic items, of level +1, level +2, level +3, level +4? I suppose that might seem a little artificial... but you won't be getting them in order in four consecutive encounters. Even if this is noticable, I'm guessing that it may not bother the players too much, since these are the only magic items of higher than their level they're going to get - so they're gonna seem special. (As I said, I haven't played enough to know from experience, but that's my guess.)

Overall it seems like a great way to guarantee the party gets an appropriate amount of wealth and magic items over time, without having to constantly recheck each character's net worth against wealth per level. That's a huge plus in my book. I'd be willing to accept a small amount of "lumpiness" from the parcel system in exchange.

 

[Psychic Robot]

Can you please explain how giving loot in parcels makes the game less believable? How else do you do it, a trail of coins? As for selling loot, I dont understand your point. Are you daying that with previous edditions you gave treasure that the PCs didnt need? Why?

The current loot system--if I'm understanding it correctly--does not allow for high-level monsters to have things like a bag of tricks. Instead, it automatically gives players a magic item of level X, then level X +1, then level X +2, etc. With monsters like dragons (who traditionally have a vast quantity of items), it is logical to assume that there would be some low-level magic items thrown in with the "big ticket" things. However, this doesn't happen in 4e with the parcel system (as I understand it; correct me if I'm wrong).

In previous editions, players could get treasure they didn't need because treasure was rolled randomly, so even a balor could have a +1 longsword in his junk closet.

 

[Runestar]

It is not necessarily a bad thing. In the past, you would just end up selling the gear you did not want/need (which could come up fairly often with classed npcs, since their gear was generally inferior to yours) to spend on eq you did want.

Now, it is more like "You have defeated a dragon. Each of you gets to choose an item you want from a list as a reward". Okay, not exactly, but the gist is there. Basically streamlines the entire process.

 

[DLichen]

There's a difference between real loot and junk items.

That's what the parcel system is supposed to help DMs with. There are real treasures you are supposed to award to make sure the party is up to par when it comes to a fight.

If you want monsters to have random magic items that aid them in combat, a DM can easily just destroy it after by having it not survive the fight. If you want random crap items around that none of the PCs can use, treat it like a monetary reward since it's going to be vendor trash anyway or have the PCs fail to notice it and toss it. Your level 1 party isn't likely to strip goblin weapons, so why would they try to get a +1 sword when they're level 15?

In my eyes, the parcel system is there as a guideline to keep the PCs on par with MM expectations. The DMG even suggests for DMs to merge and split parcels, so no reason why all trinkets disappear when the parcel system.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yay! for me. Fixes balancing problems (oops, to many dragons in this adventure path vs sorry, animals just don't carry around treasure), fixing the problem of cheapening magic items by throwing +1 items at 15th level characters. Gives more freedom how to distribute treasure among monsters.

Though the DM of my group that is converting Savage Tides to Pathfinder complains that there are not enough items to distribute. (He certainly wants to avoid repetition, and with scrolls, potions, wands and staffs of 3E there was a lot variance - even if most items were sold, not used, you never knew what you'd find.)

 

[TheNovaLord]

well i really like it

nothing else to add.

 

[CountPopeula]

Verisimilitude is over-rated. I always thought it was kind of funny that you could get gil from a wolf in Final Fantasy, but there has to be some level of abstraction. If you're just giving out trash items as a reward with the expectation players are going to sell them, what's the point?

I kind of think verisimilitude is used as a cover by GMs who want to be jerks. "Oh, you beat Orcus, he has 5 magic items... *roll roll roll* Oh, looks like you lucked out and got a +1 longsword, a tanglefoot bag, and a potion of cure light wounds."

The junk that adds so much wonderful flavor to the simulation just annoys players. The way parcels are decided now is like saying "Hey... give your players what they want, don't be a jerk, and take off the cape."