Great City Campaign Setting...not 4e...sucks

[Xyxox]

IIRC, Kenzer doesn't have to play by the GSL rules. WOTC/TSR and they had a dispute some time ago and the dust up left Kenzer with "Officially Licensed Products." At least that is my understanding of why they were allowed to place the D&D logo on 3E Kalamar. As far as I know, Kenzer (still) has a private deal with WOTC. I am sure you can google the details.

HOLY COW! I plumb forgot about the "Dragon Archive CD-ROM" debacle and how there was some sort of a settlement for Kenzer to have certain rights over it. Seems TSR reprinted the Knights of the Dinner Table run in the Dragon MAgazine without permission, and it ended up in a settlement.

That means the statement at the bottom of the Kingdoms of Kalamar book regarding fourth edition D&D is a can of worms the lawyers already played with and came to an agreement on long ago.

 

[Xyxox]

You contridict this statement below. There are other ways for publishers to produce 4e compatible products without signing the GSL. Also, I am not sure that Wotc has as much direct oversight as you claim it does. From my limited understanding, you sign up and then you have to adhere to some standards but I didn't think they had to "approve" it.

Not really.

Well that is really my point. Anyone that publishes a 4e compatible product, without the GSL, has the same limitations as OGL using their stuff which is to say not very much. The point is that the GSL is not as big of a road block to 3pp as you claim it to be.

IT's not 4E content then and cannot be sold as 4E content.

Somebody already beat me to the example of a product that may already do this.

The example presented is moot given the nature of a settlement between TSR/WotC and KenzerCo years ago over some reprinted comics. KenzerCo doens't ply by the GSL rules like every other publisher out there.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Maybe not. Erik Mona over at Paizo has stated that subscriptions for PATHFINDER have increased weekly since the announcement of 4e and are currently at an all time high.

Market for OGL stuff just as much, if not more than 4e.

Your assertion is still up in the air. Folks in 3rd party may not sign, despite the 4e market, but because they ultimately lose control of their porduct, its on teh whim of WOTC.

If I remember correctly, I believe Erik also said that they wouldn't come close to approaching WOTC sales figures. I could be wrong and maybe someone with access to the search function could look that up. However, if Pathfinder does ever reach such heights I would certainly change my tune about the whole subject.

 

[cildarith]

IIRC, Kenzer doesn't have to play by the GSL rules. WOTC/TSR and they had a dispute some time ago and the dust up left Kenzer with "Officially Licensed Products." At least that is my understanding of why they were allowed to place the D&D logo on 3E Kalamar. As far as I know, Kenzer (still) has a private deal with WOTC. I am sure you can google the details.

That expired in November. See here.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It'll be tougher than you think converting it. The beauty of the book as you know is its competley self conatined and corss referenced to the hilt. You will be doing alot of work.

The vast majority of the book doesn't need to be converted, only the crunch, which is a minority of it.

Actually there are more than a few NPC's you wll be duking it out with. The Cram brothers, the gnolls, blue and teh priestess, SHilikar and more thana few others.

Most of those guys will be dead before we convert anyway.

And worst case scenario, I could just take a big powerful gnoll from the 4E MM, or maybe one from some issue of Dragon, dye it blue, and we're off to the races. No one, except maybe Monte if he has my game bugged, would really notice or care about the difference.

Conversion is a pain if you want things to be EXACTLY THE SAME in a new system. I don't. What I bought Ptolus for was the setting, not the adventures.

 

[Darrin Drader]

If I remember correctly, I believe Erik also said that they wouldn't come close to approaching WOTC sales figures. I could be wrong and maybe someone with access to the search function could look that up. However, if Pathfinder does ever reach such heights I would certainly change my tune about the whole subject.

They don't have to even come close to approaching WotC sales figures to be successful. If all they do is provide for a third of the disaffected 3.5 customers with Pathfinder, they're going to be doing well for themselves.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Not really.

IT's not 4E content then and cannot be sold as 4E content.

The example presented is moot given the nature of a settlement between TSR/WotC and KenzerCo years ago over some reprinted comics. KenzerCo doens't ply by the GSL rules like every other publisher out there.

How is it moot? It actually is a prime example against the point that there is the GSL and nothing else. There could be any number of already existing deals with WOTC or other deals being negotiated outside the GSL.

 

[Xyxox]

I'm a little more in the know about what the true numbers are due to the companies that I work with, and what I can tell you is that the amount of available OGL work is significantly up from where it has been since the 4E announcement. Said publishers have been doing private little happy dances ever since the public got a look at 4th edition and started deciding how they were going to spend their gaming dollars.

Let's assume for the moment that the majority of the gamers who actively spend money on their games do decide to go to 4E. Let's also assume that a nice small percentage of the buying former 3.5 crowd, say 20% (current estimates indicate that this number is actually as much as 15% higher than this), decides to stick with 3.5 or go to another alternative based on the same system. Those buyers can't get what they want from WotC anymore so they are forced to go elsewhere. The companies providing for the market that still wants 3.5 compatible stuff end up with larger marketshare than they had before simply due to the fact that they no longer have to compete against WotC for those dollars. In the end, WotC has done these publishers a huge favor by getting out of the 3.5 market.

Hugely interesting. It looks to me that Paizo is in a good position to become the de facto source fo canon for the continuation of 3.5 (e.g. "Pathfinder is 3.75"). That could make Paizo a huge player in the industry.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

They don't have to even come close to approaching WotC sales figures to be successful. If all they do is provide for a third of the disaffected 3.5 customers with Pathfinder, they're going to be doing well for themselves.

Nor do I say that they have to.

 

[Ourph]

That's a can or worms for the lawyers to play with, and I suspect they will.

This is already established case law. It's entirely legit for a product to make use of another company's trademarked name on its packaging for purposes of comparison or to indicate compatibility. Role-Aids did it without licensing for years and only got nailed in court when they submitted to a more restrictive license and then broke it. It also happens all the time with generic over-the-counter medicines. Look at the package for generic Ibuprofen and you'll likely see a blurb saying "Compare to the ingredients in Advil Extra Strength (TM)".