Feel free... You have way more patience than I do!
New Class -- Historian (think Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider)
- Thread starter Inlicere
- Start date
Feel free... You have way more patience than I do!
Siberys
Adventurer
Any plans for some Paragon paths?
All the core classes have 'em, and I'd like some. I'll make some myself if I have to, but I'd like to see some you designed yourself.
by the by, neat class. I'll certainly be making one. Although I'd like to know what role you'd think this would fulfill - so I can tell players what to expect from the class.
All the core classes have 'em, and I'd like some. I'll make some myself if I have to, but I'd like to see some you designed yourself.
by the by, neat class. I'll certainly be making one. Although I'd like to know what role you'd think this would fulfill - so I can tell players what to expect from the class.
greyscale1
First Post
I salute salute this class.
I also extend a minor (but still substantial) salute to generalhenry, for taking one for the team and getting the text on the wiki for all to see.
I also extend a minor (but still substantial) salute to generalhenry, for taking one for the team and getting the text on the wiki for all to see.
Oh yes... I put the first version of the Historian out to start getting opinions, but there is more material on the way. The paragon paths I'm thinking of right now are (not necessarilly their final names, just the concepts):
- Arcane historian -- Someone who has chosen all arcane powers as their esoteric knowledge.
- Divine historian -- Same idea, but has chosen all divine powers.
- Abberant historian -- Someone who wants to take on powers of creatures of the Far Realms (as opposed to just their combat tactics, which the core class has).
I'm afraid I cant be much help here... it's intentially designed around the Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider concept rather than around a specific role. I think it's a hybrid... probably more of a leader / controller combination and lighter on the defender or striker sides.
erik_the_guy
First Post
There is no literacy in 4e, everyone can read and write the languages they speak.
The 'master of your trade' feature should probably just give the 'jack of all trades' feat.
Only 3 of your powers use wisdom (none of them at wills) and the class description does not justify the reason that a high wisdom skill is needed.
I don't see what you class "does" in combat. It does not seem to have a role. It can set enemies and allies up strategically on the battlefield, but does not have the healing or area damage powers of a leader or controller. It does not have nearly the damage output of a striker. The role it is closest to is defender, because you can distract opponents and sometimes even mark them. However, you do not have anything near the AC or hit points that a defender needs, and too many skills that help you get out of a fight to play the defender role properly.
I don't really think your character is really combat capable. Many of your powers seem to set the opponents up, move them around so that you have the advantage, but for what?
I would suggest for one thing, adding a class feature for increased damage to make the historian more like a striker. This is just one possibility:
Careful study: you study your opponent's movements and identify a weakness. When you are ready, you can inflict deadly blows with ease.
As a minor action in combat you may study a creature. Make an intelligence check against a DC of 15. You may use an appropriate knowledge skill depending on the creature instead at the DM's discretion (such as religion against undead creatures). Success means you have studied the target. Failure means you can retry with another minor action. The DC increases to 25 for monsters at the paragon level and 30 for those at the epic level.
Once per round when you deal damage to a creature you have successfully studied, add 1d6 to the damage. This amount increases to 2d6 at 11th level and 3d6 at 21st level.
*Note that most of your skills are great for maneuvering around enemies in combat, helping you take advantage of this ability.
Also, most classes have some option for alternate character builds. For example, you could focus more on an historian who is a master of acquiring powerful relics and dangerous knowledge, or one whose nerves make him an excellent trap dodger and scout.
The player has a choice between the
Treasure hunter: You may identify magic items using a short rest rather than an extended rest if you make an appropriate knowledge check (DM's choice) against a DC of 15. This number increases to 25 for paragon teir items and 30 for epic tier items. You cannot identify artifacts in this way. You gain jack of all trades as a bonus feat.
Explorer: You and adjacent allies gain a bonus to your initiative rolls and defenses against traps equal to your wisdom modifier. You gain alertness as a bonus feat.
You can edit some of your powers around these two path choices so that some of them fit one better than the other.
EDIT: I wasn't criticizing the idea or saying it's a bad idea to make his role less obvious. I'm just saying it was a bit weak for a PC. The extra damage makes it a bit more like a striker, but it can still fill other roles, like a fighter is a defender that is a bit like a striker, and a paladin is a defender a bit like a leader.
The 'master of your trade' feature should probably just give the 'jack of all trades' feat.
Only 3 of your powers use wisdom (none of them at wills) and the class description does not justify the reason that a high wisdom skill is needed.
I don't see what you class "does" in combat. It does not seem to have a role. It can set enemies and allies up strategically on the battlefield, but does not have the healing or area damage powers of a leader or controller. It does not have nearly the damage output of a striker. The role it is closest to is defender, because you can distract opponents and sometimes even mark them. However, you do not have anything near the AC or hit points that a defender needs, and too many skills that help you get out of a fight to play the defender role properly.
I don't really think your character is really combat capable. Many of your powers seem to set the opponents up, move them around so that you have the advantage, but for what?
I would suggest for one thing, adding a class feature for increased damage to make the historian more like a striker. This is just one possibility:
Careful study: you study your opponent's movements and identify a weakness. When you are ready, you can inflict deadly blows with ease.
As a minor action in combat you may study a creature. Make an intelligence check against a DC of 15. You may use an appropriate knowledge skill depending on the creature instead at the DM's discretion (such as religion against undead creatures). Success means you have studied the target. Failure means you can retry with another minor action. The DC increases to 25 for monsters at the paragon level and 30 for those at the epic level.
Once per round when you deal damage to a creature you have successfully studied, add 1d6 to the damage. This amount increases to 2d6 at 11th level and 3d6 at 21st level.
*Note that most of your skills are great for maneuvering around enemies in combat, helping you take advantage of this ability.
Also, most classes have some option for alternate character builds. For example, you could focus more on an historian who is a master of acquiring powerful relics and dangerous knowledge, or one whose nerves make him an excellent trap dodger and scout.
The player has a choice between the
Treasure hunter: You may identify magic items using a short rest rather than an extended rest if you make an appropriate knowledge check (DM's choice) against a DC of 15. This number increases to 25 for paragon teir items and 30 for epic tier items. You cannot identify artifacts in this way. You gain jack of all trades as a bonus feat.
Explorer: You and adjacent allies gain a bonus to your initiative rolls and defenses against traps equal to your wisdom modifier. You gain alertness as a bonus feat.
You can edit some of your powers around these two path choices so that some of them fit one better than the other.
EDIT: I wasn't criticizing the idea or saying it's a bad idea to make his role less obvious. I'm just saying it was a bit weak for a PC. The extra damage makes it a bit more like a striker, but it can still fill other roles, like a fighter is a defender that is a bit like a striker, and a paladin is a defender a bit like a leader.
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Is there really a problem with a class that doesn't have a role? This class sets enemies up so that his allies can give them the fall (leader). It also marks enemies, and steps between allies and oncoming attacks (defender). It also maneuvers around the battlefield with uncanny ease with acrobatics and tons of self moving powers (striker). I can't recall any specifically controller abilities right now, but with Esoteric Knowledge and multiclassing it could easily pick up some very tight control presense as well.
The thing is, while the class doesn't have a set role, it seems to be able to perform many, and can switch up tactics when necessary. I don't think that the class "can't perform in combat." It's still going to deal damage. It's still going to push enemies around to its allies benefit. It just isn't heaping on the damage like a striker or wading in melee like a defender, or healing like a leader.
The thing is, while the class doesn't have a set role, it seems to be able to perform many, and can switch up tactics when necessary. I don't think that the class "can't perform in combat." It's still going to deal damage. It's still going to push enemies around to its allies benefit. It just isn't heaping on the damage like a striker or wading in melee like a defender, or healing like a leader.
Yea... Literacy is specific to my own setting. Anyone using the Historian in a standard setting would just ignore that feature. It's just there for flavor in my game.
This one was a conscious choice... I wanted historian characters to have the option of taking the 'jack of all trades' feat as well.
Also a conscious design choice... which I worry abut, but decided to stick to. The class is designed around the Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider type of character, rather than around a specific combat role.
My feeling is that it will be quite playable, but I'd love to hear any feedback on how players find that it works out in practice.
No offense taken at all... I appreciate that you took the time to review it and put some thought into suggestions. I'll certainly look at them closely.
I have the perfect compromise. It would basically be an analog from 3.5s Factotum and allow it to further mimic other roles, but without the purity of being a real Striker or Defender. Thoughts?
Inspiration: Once per encounter, by spending a minor action you can use one of the following abilities.
Cunning Strike - Choose an enemy you can see. Your next melee attack against that enemy deals 2d6 extra damage. Increase this extra damage to 3d6 at 11st level, and to 4d6 at 21st level.
Cunning Defense - Choose an adjacent enemy. That enemy is marked as long as you engage it. Additionally, you get a bonus to OAs against the marked target equal to 1/2 your dexterity modifier and whenever the marked target shifts any number of squares you may shift that many squares or up to 1/2 your dexterity modifier (whichever is fewer) as long as you end your movement adjacent to the marked target. Add 1 square to the number of squares you shift at 11th level, and add a further 1 square (total of 2) at 21st level.
Cunning Surge - Your next attack effects an area of Close Burst 2 or Close Blast 2 and hits all creatures in the area, rather than its normal targets. Increase the area to Burst or Blast 3 at 11th level, and Burst or Blast 4 at 21st level.
Cunning Renewal - One ally within Close Burst 3 can spend a healing surge and regains 1d6 additional hitpoints. That ally regains 2d6 additional hit points at 11th level, and 3d6 additional hitpoints at 21st level.
Inspiration: Once per encounter, by spending a minor action you can use one of the following abilities.
Cunning Strike - Choose an enemy you can see. Your next melee attack against that enemy deals 2d6 extra damage. Increase this extra damage to 3d6 at 11st level, and to 4d6 at 21st level.
Cunning Defense - Choose an adjacent enemy. That enemy is marked as long as you engage it. Additionally, you get a bonus to OAs against the marked target equal to 1/2 your dexterity modifier and whenever the marked target shifts any number of squares you may shift that many squares or up to 1/2 your dexterity modifier (whichever is fewer) as long as you end your movement adjacent to the marked target. Add 1 square to the number of squares you shift at 11th level, and add a further 1 square (total of 2) at 21st level.
Cunning Surge - Your next attack effects an area of Close Burst 2 or Close Blast 2 and hits all creatures in the area, rather than its normal targets. Increase the area to Burst or Blast 3 at 11th level, and Burst or Blast 4 at 21st level.
Cunning Renewal - One ally within Close Burst 3 can spend a healing surge and regains 1d6 additional hitpoints. That ally regains 2d6 additional hit points at 11th level, and 3d6 additional hitpoints at 21st level.
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WanderingMystic
Hero
I wanted to say that I love the concept for this class but I find it a bit lacking. I would love to see some more abilities showcasing the historians Intelligence, this is really what draws me to the class and i personally feel that it should be your primary stat as a historian but since almost all of your abilities require dex to hit it makes it more enticing as your primary stat. Also since both of these stats are what determines your reflex and ac you lose out on buying both of them up and the bonuses your int gives to your abilities don't seem to out weigh this cost.
"You have to have quick reflexes to survive as a historian, but you have to have an even quicker mind. "
I think we're on the same page, in terms of wanting the historians intelligence to be a defining aspect of how he behaves in combat. I count 23 historian exploits that use Intelligence in some way, which I think is much more than any other martial class. That said, the class still has a lot more exploits that depend on Dexterity.
If you have any thoughts for other exploits that include Intelligence and fit the Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider feel, I'm way open to suggestions!
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