What's with the Gnome Hate?

[Hussar]

That is becuase for 10 years TSR and then WotC presented the gnomes as weak, small, passive and the white-bread of the player races. Had, at some point during those 10 years and who knows how many books, gnomes been made interesting by TSR and WotC, then there would be fans of the little guys.

But, that's my point. Why is everyone pointing fingers at TSR and WOTC? I mean out of the thousands and thousands of pages of OGC out there, NO ONE did anything with gnomes? That's not just WOTC or TSR. That's a whole lot of everyone.

Look, I play a gnome. I have played gnomes in every edition. But, it's pretty abundantly clear that I'm in the minority here. So gnomes get the kick. Ok. It happens. I would have loved to see lots of races make the book personally. I've been pushing for a reptile race since 2e, so, dragonborn do it for me.

For me, it hit me a few years back when a player came to me with a kobold bard with a high charisma and lots of social skills. I asked her why not play a gnome and got a completely blank look back. Never even occured to her to play a gnome. That pretty much nailed it on the head for me.

 

[Trench]

By the way, I'm not a gnome supremacist. People don't like gnomes in their game, no biggie. Heck, our original campaign didn't have elves because he didn't like them. No one is wrong for disliking gnomes. I'm just saying that gnomes, heck ANY race, can be made cool and playable if you have a decent hook and flavor about it. Saying the basic concept of the race itself is flawed and no fun is misleading.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

...then that says something about the concept.

The basic concept of halflings has changed considerably. The basic concept of elves, dwarves, half-orcs and druids have all changed, less so than the halflings but they are not what they were. The gnomes could have adjusted, they were not.

 

[Hussar]

The basic concept of halflings has changed considerably. The basic concept of elves, dwarves, half-orcs and druids have all changed, less so than the halflings but they are not what they were. The gnomes could have adjusted, they were not.

Gnomes were adjusted. And everyone hated them. I've yet to hear anything good about the 3.5 gnomes. Other than Zil gnomes, I've yet to hear anything good about D&D gnomes period.

Can you make gnomes interesting? Sure. Were they? Nope. No one did it. Not TSR, not WOTC, not any of the 3rd party publishers.

Think of it another way. What race has been dropped more times from settings, both WOTC and 3rd party?

What does this tell us?

 

[The Little Raven]

The gnomes could have adjusted, they were not.

Gnomes have been adjusted. Neither the original, nor the adjusted versions have ever gained any real traction.

 

[Dragonbait]

I just played in a game where the GM RPed a gnome with a high-pitch, nasaly whiney voice. It was very excessive.

If that's how gnomes are represented in most games, no wonder why they are hated.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I just played in a game where the GM RPed a gnome with a high-pitch, nasaly whiney voice. It was very excessive.

If that's how gnomes are represented in most games, no wonder why they are hated.

Why would you assume that most people do anything of the sort?

I remember when these threads were always about paladins. I think the end result there was always "OK, don't let the annoying guy play a paladin any more; the class itself isn't inherently the problem."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But, that's my point. Why is everyone pointing fingers at TSR and WOTC? I mean out of the thousands and thousands of pages of OGC out there, NO ONE did anything with gnomes? That's not just WOTC or TSR. That's a whole lot of everyone.

Mongoose, Green Ronin, a ton of smaller publishers all did gnome stuff.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Gnomes were adjusted. And everyone hated them. I've yet to hear anything good about the 3.5 gnomes. Other than Zil gnomes, I've yet to hear anything good about D&D gnomes period.

Gnomes were present in Greyhawk and highly represented in the setting. Moreso than dwarves in the actual adventuring area of the central flan. They faded after that. As for 3.5, I remember a lot of this same debate going on when they "became bards", so I don't think that's a good sign of "no interest".

Can you make gnomes interesting? Sure. Were they? Nope. No one did it. Not TSR, not WOTC, not any of the 3rd party publishers.

Think of it another way. What race has been dropped more times from settings, both WOTC and 3rd party?

What does this tell us?

That half orcs are not well liked?

Oh, right, you were trying to say gnomes...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I blame that on halfings, how many people wanted to play a hobbit after all?

Halflings were the rogue/thief race until 3E. It's impossible to tell how many people wanted to play hobbits and how many just wanted to play the best race for that class.

In any case, they were hardly uncommon.