Necromancer Games NOT going with current GSL.

[Raven Crowking]

[FONT=&quot]The OGL was a beautiful thing. IMHO, it wasn't the primacy of the 3E ruleset that help D&D to flourish and attract more gamers than ever. Nay, it was the openness of the system.

Yup. Wouldn't it be great if some folks would get their heads out of their backsides and make 4e OGL? Then we really could have the best of both worlds......!

 

[Jasperak]

First, no matter how popular Pathfinder gets, it won't ever have the name recognition of D&D. Most casual gamers won't have any clue what Pathfinder is, and will likely (and rightly) assume its not D&D, but some other game. And to be honest, why would a casual gamer buy a module or book for a game he doesn't play? Granted, someone who frequents these boards (or maybe the WotC boards) might know what Pathfinder is, but I'd estimate easily 80% of the gamers out there will have no clue. I'd be amazed if Pathfinder system materials could sell 1/10th the amount of pretty much any 4e product for this reason.

/snipped to question this point

What I would really like to know is how many people just went into a store to pick up a RPG to play. There is no significant marketing campaign for 4e. Every single person that I have talked to has said they were introduced to D&D and RPGs by someone else. That train goes all the way back to miniature wargamers, people that watched D&D cartoons, and Boy Scout leaders. Name recognition means nothing if nobody plays. If I go into my FLGS and they are playing Pathfinder, that's what I'm going to be introduced to. Has anyone that never played D&D gone into Borders of B&N and just bought D&D because some computer games were based off of it? D&D and RPGs in general are word-of-mouth hobbies. I would love to see marketing data that points otherwise.

To help clairify my point, is there anybody in this forum or on this site that started playing D&D and had not been introduced to it by someone that already played it?

 

[Psion]

Well, there's another kick in the shins for GSL.

It's good to hear that Necro will be supporting Pathfinder.

I said some time ago that the Advanced Player's Guide was one thing that could get me to consider 4e for an extended period. Now it appears to be off the table until something changes.

 

[Mistwell]

You'd have to be a fool to count on the GSL for any length of time. It was a struggle to get it out even in the form it's in. We were flat out told that a few people had to fight hard and champion it for it to even see the light of day. It's not going to take much internally for the wind to change and blow in the other direction. At that point those that signed it are going to find themselves in a sticky situation.

I disagree, and I think this reflects a common misconception of how this industry, and most industries, function in terms of licenses (almost all of which are revokable and changeable).

 

[Rystil Arden]

What I would really like to know is how many people just went into a store to pick up a RPG to play. There is no significant marketing campaign for 4e. Every single person that I have talked to has said they were introduced to D&D and RPGs by someone else. That train goes all the way back to miniature wargamers, people that watched D&D cartoons, and Boy Scout leaders. Name recognition means nothing if nobody plays. If I go into my FLGS and they are playing Pathfinder, that's what I'm going to be introduced to. Has anyone that never played D&D gone into Borders of B&N and just bought D&D because some computer games were based off of it? D&D and RPGs in general are word-of-mouth hobbies. I would love to see marketing data that points otherwise.

To help clairify my point, is there anybody in this forum or on this site that started playing D&D and had not been introduced to it by someone that already played it?

Well, there's at least me. At a relatively young age, I saw it at a bookstore and had my parents buy the basic set. I didn't make any serious progress on rules mastery for a few years after that, though, due to the way I picked it up.

 

[Aristotle]

I gotta agree that the OGL is really what made 3e the success that it was. I *really* like 90% of 4e, and I fully intend to keep buying it. I've always been pretty selective about what 3rd party products I buy anyway, but I definately get the point that a restrictive license affects more than just the publishers. Those players who enjoyed the larger pool of creativity that a third party market provides are simply not going to come along for the ride.

 

[DaveMage]

To help clairify my point, is there anybody in this forum or on this site that started playing D&D and had not been introduced to it by someone that already played it?

Me.

My parents bought me the basic set in 1980, but they had never played the game. They probably thought their 10-year old would like a game with dragons in it.

They were right.

 

[The Little Raven]

If you're a 4th edition fan, enjoy the game and play the game. What I urge you to do though, is to stop judging those who choose not to adopt it and join in a game or two of either 3.5 or Pathfinder when convenient.

If only the 3.5 or Pathfinder fans weren't so judgmental towards us 4th edition fans (y'know, looking down on us "fanbois" for liking our "dumbed down" game). Then we might actually find some common ground.

 

[Raven Crowking]

To help clairify my point, is there anybody in this forum or on this site that started playing D&D and had not been introduced to it by someone that already played it?

(Raises hand)

Where I grew up, I was the gateway drug to rpgs. There was one other guy who was pushing campaigns around the same time I started, but he admitted that he got into it because he saw me with the Holmes Blue Box book.

I sought it out because of a TV spot.

RC

 

[Jasperak]

Why? Why does 2E get no love?

1. 2e "streamlined" 1e rules

2. 2e+splats and 2.5e introduced kits which added mechanical differences within classes instead of allowing characters playing the same class to be differentiated by roleplaying alone.

YMMV