What is it about the GSL that is really a deal breaker?

[Corjay]

My view on that has already been well established in this discussion. The gist is: A concept can have a solid theory, but poor execution. I'm of the belief that the OGL is exactly that, regardless of the source. Big names mean nothing to me. If the GPL is that close to the OGL and cuts off the avenue of the licenser to protect themselves and their property in the way of the OGL while granting an unlimited and eternal license, then it too is poorly executed. Don't waste your breath trying to convince me otherwise.

 

[Ranger REG]

Don't waste your breath trying to convince me otherwise.

I won't. I'll just enjoy more OGL-based RPGs now and in the future.

I still think the GSL is just a waste of ink & page. They should just Closed it up. If 3PP wish to make 4e-compatible, 4e-supported products, they should just talk to WotC for exclusive licensing.

 

[jmucchiello]

If it as good as, then why the new license?


What's so bad about two separate licenses?

The OGL is also revocable. Just breach the terms laid out in that license.

Was there a big NOT in front of my post? Your questions seem to be in response to the exact opposite of what I said.

They already made a new license but if it somehow works as well as the d20STL + OGL combo, that's good enough for me.

I said two licenses is best.

All licenses are revokable by breach, that's nothing new.

 

[jmucchiello]

If the GPL is that close to the OGL and cuts off the avenue of the licenser to protect themselves and their property in the way of the OGL while granting an unlimited and eternal license, then it too is poorly executed. Don't waste your breath trying to convince me otherwise.

I agree. A license granting unlimited and eternal use is a poorly executed license. While the are eternal, the GPL and the OGL have limits. So no need to convince you of something that true. Instead the goal is to convince you that the GPL and OGL are not unlimited.

The thing you are forgetting is that the rights the licenser grants to the licensee are granted back to the licenser whenever the licensee uses the license. (Read that twice I think I got all the r's and e's in the right places.)

This -for-tat is the grant and consideration of the contract created by the license. So you are granting a perpetual license in exchange for a perpetual license.

The "flaw" with OGL is that Wizards never took the OGC created by 3rd parties and used it. Since they didn't use that content, they operated at a net lose with regard to the -for-tat granted under the license. So your view that they gave away the farm and got nothing in return is only true because they didn't take advantage of their own license.

TANGENT: Of course arguably they did even better. They created an environment where people who could design games were encouraged to do so. Does Mike Mearls get hired if he doesn't design stuff like Iron Heroes? Maybe Mike would have written a bunch of Dragon articles and he would have been discovered without the OGL.

 

[Vigilance]

TANGENT: Of course arguably they did even better. They created an environment where people who could design games were encouraged to do so. Does Mike Mearls get hired if he doesn't design stuff like Iron Heroes? Maybe Mike would have written a bunch of Dragon articles and he would have been discovered without the OGL.

Mike was a good designer anyway and would have made his way into the industry regardless, assuming he wanted to.

However, he learned his craft on the dime of other businesses, rather than Wizards paying him during his apprenticeship (whether at Dragon or in some other capacity).

I call that a win for Wizards.

The rest of your post, that I didn't quote, I agree with 100%.

Had Wizards allowed 3rd party content to feed back into the system, they would have reaped even better rewards than they did.

And I laugh at the concept that the OGL "gave away the farm". Getting other companies to support your product and feed your player base, while reducing competition is giving away the farm? If so, I wish I had a few of those farms to give away.

 

[Vigilance]

A license should establish a relationship between the licenser and the licensee.

And Wizards wanted the license that way.

They wanted DISTANCE, so that their brand wouldn't be impacted if someone made a racist, neo-nazi, Apocalyptic RPG.

So saying it was a bad license because it did exactly what Wizards wanted it to do, is a little silly imo.

Wizards didn't want to be the gatekeeper. They wanted nothing to do with licensees.

 

[Vigilance]

As to the OP, speaking only for myself (but representative of conversations I and Chris Davis had):

1. License changes at will
2. No notification of changes (just check back often!)
3. License survives revocation. Wizards can cancel the license at any time and cut me off from my own IP. If either side cancels the license, I should be free to go back to the OGL. Or convert to any OTHER OGL system (d20 isn't the only one).
4. I pay legal fees even if I win. Wizards was asking me to AGREE to let them nuisance suit me out of business Mayfair-style. Whether or not I think they WOULD, why would I grant them that right?

 

[Corjay]

And that's exactly why you should leave contract denial to the lawyers. If you read through this thread, you'll see why your number 4 doesn't actually exist.

 

[Corjay]

As a note to those who don't understand the language, subsection 5.5 is not restricting the production of products supporting their licensed product. What it is saying is that the products cannot be considered covered by the license or be packaged with the licensed product.

 

[Vigilance]

And that's exactly why you should leave contract denial to the lawyers. If you read through this thread, you'll see why your number 4 doesn't actually exist.

Uhhuh.

But 1, 2 and 3 were all deal breakers too.

So even if you're right and I'm wrong (entirely possible), that's still 3 reasons not to sign.

Basically, there were several points in the license that made me say "no".

That said, I would like a better license, and have hope that Wizards will eventually deliver one.