What do you think about the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Book

[dm4hire]

Duplicate post, though I didn't even click the button twice.

 

[The Little Raven]

I noticed that Hoar was moved from Neutral in 3e to Evil... I wasn't impressed by that, but it appears they're focused on the revenge part of his portfolio rather than the ironic/poetic justice....

That's why jumping to conclusions about things before you fully read them is a bad idea. Hoar was attacked and subjugated by Bane during the Spellplague years, and is now basically Bane's slave.

 

[The Little Raven]

Lackies could be mentioned with info as to which MM they are in.

But they aren't in any MM. You can't look up Kir-Lanan or Mordrin in any MM, because they're only in the FRCG.

I have a feeling that players will still need to read it for information.

There is a reason this information isn't in the player's guide: it's not for players. The PG will have whatever information that a player from a particular region needs to know.

Where are all the magic items???

Aside from the minor artifacts and story items (which are very DM-oriented), the magic items are in the same place as the core: the Player's Guide.

 

[Vanuslux]

That's why jumping to conclusions about things before you fully read them is a bad idea. Hoar was attacked and subjugated by Bane during the Spellplague years, and is now basically Bane's slave.

That really doesn't make it any better.

 

[vazanar]

But they aren't in any MM. You can't look up Kir-Lanan or Mordrin in any MM, because they're only in the FRCG.

Which is my bigger problem with this book. Why do we have so many goblins! Having some low level lackeys in the adventure would have been great. Make it more useful and in the vein of a FR campaign book. Instead more goblins instead of new creatures/villians like those in the threats part.

 

[The Little Raven]

That really doesn't make it any better.

The God of Tyranny oppressing other gods in his lust for power makes perfect sense to me.

Which is my bigger problem with this book. Why do we have so many goblins! Having some low level lackeys in the adventure would have been great. Make it more useful and in the vein of a FR campaign book. Instead more goblins instead of new creatures/villians like those in the threats part.

By goblins, I can only assume you're talking about the Loudwater adventure in the beginning, which is written to be a drop-in-and-play adventure, which means that monster stat blocks will be in encounter sections to prevent DMs from having to flip through multiple books/pages to find the monsters referenced.

 

[vazanar]

By goblins, I can only assume you're talking about the Loudwater adventure in the beginning, which is written to be a drop-in-and-play adventure, which means that monster stat blocks will be in encounter sections to prevent DMs from having to flip through multiple books/pages to find the monsters referenced.

That makes it okay to just be goblins not modified for the realms at all? The adventure doesn't bug me as much as using enemies we've seen in multiple other products. Have the stat blocks but at least have something more original.

 

[Primal]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](Crossposted from Candlekeep)

Here's my review of 4E FRCG, based on reading through a friend's copy (he was promptly kicked out of his group for his sacrilege! ).

Some comments based on what I remember:

- Loudwater... now, this chapter *really* sets new standards for low-quality in a published FR product. Frankly, I was stunned at how bad it was... the town map was the *worst* since, like, forever -- it was a square 50 x 50 squares (about) box filled with 20+ buildings. I mean, uh, where do those 9000 people live? Mighty high buildings, I would say! The NPCs... those two we saw in the excerpt were the *best* of the bunch -- 'Brother Griffon' and the rest were really that bad. I'm convinced that the map of Loudwater is to appear in 'Storm of Zehir', and that is probably why it is "primitive" and square-shaped, hey? It may work as a miniature map, but I haven't seen any DM worth his salt using such maps since the original CRPG 'Pool of Radiance' came out. If I had bought this book, I would have felt *insulted* by this map. All in all, I think the book would have been a *LOT* better as a whole without the first chapter.

- The divine symbols of some deities have "evolved", and certainly not for the better. Corellon's symbol is now a "starburst", but can you guess how Lolth's symbol looks like? A slightly different starburst, naturally! Gruumsh's symbol is an odd-looking "triangle" of bones, and Bane's mighty fish has transformed into a three-pronged talon-like appendice! IIRC this was not even explained anywhere, so it's probably a retcon? And, the symbols for the other deities are not even mentioned *at all*, so good luck without your 2E/3E accessories! Or perhaps only the Greater Deities have symbols, now? I also found it odd that deities have only a single "sphere" of control now, because in some cases it results in odd choices for the sphere (as already mentioned here and the WoTC boards) -- was the idea of deities holding multiple portfolios *really* that complex for DMs and players to grasp?

- The Zhentarim also have changed their symbol -- they now wear a brown-colored fanged skull on a burst of dark-brown rays (on yellow field) as their symbol. If it is meant to resemble Cyric's own symbol, the colors seem like an odd choice...

- Primordials. Ubtao "the Deceiver"? Elder Gods, led by Ouroboros the World-Serpent? And how come the Elemental Lords (Grumbar, Istishia, Akadi, and Kossuth) have had established churches and commanded worship on Toril, if they have always been "just" Primordials confined to Abeir? Or how did Kezef escape from Abeir to hound Mask in the events of the Cyrinishad debacle? A lot of this stuff just seems to be quick ideas they threw around in meetings, without researching the established Realmslore properly, in effect creation contradictions and inconsistencies you could fly a Halruaan Skyship through. Oh, I forgot about their "Secret Timeline"... maybe it holds answers to everything? Yeah...

- Eladrin. I don't think I saw a single mention of elven subraces, while the Eladrin were mentioned here and there -- I wonder if the elven subraces have been cut altogether from 4E FR?

- The glossary (written by Ed) was nice, and there were words and terms you could steal to enrich any FR campaign.

- Most of the 'Overview'-chapter I really flipped through, and my overall feeling was that there was a lot of "meh!"-stuff and bad ideas. Very little info on Baldur's Gate. Oh, the *did* include the City of Sharn from Eberron (after a fashion) in the form of Skyclave, capital of High Imaskar! And if everyone didn't think 'Rose Keep' was enough, there is the 'Castle of the Rose' near Skyclave...

- Returned Abeir. Along with Waterdeep, this was the best part in the book, although I may not agree with the whole concept of Abeir/Toril -divide and the nature of the changes. You can really tell that both Waterdeep and Abeir have been written by Ed, and there are a lot of stuff that could be imported into Golarion, for example.

- One weird detail was that [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Wheloon is now officially a 'Royal Prison City' in Cormyr. They walled in everyone, as it turned out that most of the citizens were... *gasp* ... worshippers of Shar![/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Summa summarum: My overall impression was that I'm not going to buy this book, because a lot of the changes were explained so vaguely that they contradict published Realmslore, which would require a lot of extra work for me to make it all internally consistent again (George, Eric and Steven -- your efforts will be needed again! . New players and DMs may find it more appealing, but the level of details and especially the *quality* of most of the content I found sorely lacking.
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[The Little Raven]

- Loudwater...

I didn't think Loudwater was very good, either.

Bane's mighty fish

This brought a chuckle.

IIRC this was not even explained anywhere, so it's probably a retcon?

It's been a hundred years. Stuff changed in that time, especially because of all the cosmological and god changes. Gods change their symbols because of changes to them and all that.

And, the symbols for the other deities are not even mentioned *at all*, so good luck without your 2E/3E accessories!

The Player's Guide would likely have info on the gods, too, since the players will need that information. We'll likely see more symbols there.

I also found it odd that deities have only a single "sphere" of control now, because in some cases it results in odd choices for the sphere (as already mentioned here and the WoTC boards) -- was the idea of deities holding multiple portfolios *really* that complex for DMs and players to grasp?

The "sphere" seems to be a one word summary of their basic outlook and description. The entries have more complexity than the reference table.

The Zhentarim also have changed their symbol -- they now wear a brown-colored fanged skull on a burst of dark-brown rays (on yellow field) as their symbol. If it is meant to resemble Cyric's own symbol, the colors seem like an odd choice...

It's slightly different than Cyric's, but since most Zhents are Cyricists now, it's not surprising.

And how come the Elemental Lords (Grumbar, Istishia, Akadi, and Kossuth) have had established churches and commanded worship on Toril, if they have always been "just" Primordials confined to Abeir?

Because they didn't fight the gods, like the other primordials, and weren't sent to Abeir with the others. Primordials function like gods in terms of worshipers and power-granting, it seems.

Or how did Kezef escape from Abeir to hound Mask in the events of the Cyrinishad debacle?

I saw some mention of Kezef which indicated that he wasn't sent to Abeir, either, but I can't bring it directly to mind. I'll take a look when I get home tonight.

Eladrin. I don't think I saw a single mention of elven subraces, while the Eladrin were mentioned here and there -- I wonder if the elven subraces have been cut altogether from 4E FR?

Player's Guide.

 

[renau1g]

Well thanks for the correction Raven, at least they explained it... I just wish one of our PCs hadn't made a LG Paladin of Hoar....Well, I guess in my realms that didn't happen.

So Loudwater is near-universally disliked, especially as it encompasses over 10% of the book...I wonder if the editors were sitting around and thought that this was the best use of space, especially when it could've been offered as a free supplement through Dungeon/Dragon...