Dex penalty and heavy armor?

[logopolis]

If a character has a penalty to Dexterity, does it apply if he wears heavy armor?

Say you have a 1st level character with Dex 7 (-2 penalty) and Int 8 (-1 penalty).
If that character wears leather armor (light), his AC is 11 = 10 + 0 (level) + 2 (armor) + -1 (Int, since it's higher than Dex).
What happens if he wears chain mail (heavy)? Is his AC 14, 15 or 16?

 

[DracoSuave]

If a character has a penalty to Dexterity, does it apply if he wears heavy armor?

Say you have a 1st level character with Dex 7 (-2 penalty) and Int 8 (-1 penalty).
If that character wears leather armor (light), his AC is 11 = 10 + 0 (level) + 2 (armor) + -1 (Int, since it's higher than Dex).
What happens if he wears chain mail (heavy)? Is his AC 14, 15 or 16?

If something explicitly negates a bonus, it will not negate any penalties, nor vice versa. However, if something explicitly negates a modifier then it applies to both bonuses and penalties.

The entry on armor states:

When you wear heavy armor, you don't add an ability score modifier to your AC.

The text says you don't add the -modifier- which therefore means it both applies to bonuses and penalties.

Altho, for the record, this benefit never applies to player characters by the book, as they will always have at least one of Dex or Int at a minimum of 10. (unless you're rolling them)

 

[Sanzuo]

That's a good question now that I think about it.

I would rule that it does apply because you clearly made that choice on where to place your stats when you created the character. I can see warrior types taking advantage of it and dumping both int and dex and enjoying no AC penalty, even though it's probably not an optimal choice anyway.

Edit: Blah

Edit 2: Blah blah

 

[logopolis]

Altho, for the record, this benefit never applies to player characters by the book, as they will always have at least one of Dex or Int at a minimum of 10. (unless you're rolling them)

Yeah, that's what happened. Our cleric decided to roll stats, and rolled a 7 and 8, but kept the rolls since the rest of the stats were very high. I ruled that the character gets -1 to AC, same as he would get with light armor. I think I'll probably revise it to the rules as written -- I guess you could argue that the added protection given by the armor provides a benefit even if you're slow to dodge.

 

[DracoSuave]

That's a good question now that I think about it.

I would rule that it does apply because you clearly made that choice on where to place your stats when you created the character. I can see warrior types taking advantage of it and dumping both int and dex and enjoying no AC penalty, even though it's probably not an optimal choice anyway.

Edit: Blah

Edit 2: Blah blah

Their Reflex will still -really- suck, tho. They've got a HUGE achilles heel.

 

[Larrin]

the whole point of heavy armour is that you can't really 'dodge' in it. You can't dodge out of attacks, and you can't dodge into them either. You just stand there and let it bounce off you. A penalty can't cause you to "stand there and let it bounce off you" any worse, can it? So RAW you don't take the penalty (for reason others put quite well), and i think fluff-wise its believable. heavy armour protects your from your own clumsiness/stupidity as much as it keeps you from using your quickness/intelligence to your benefit.

 

[Stalker0]

If we pull it out of our 3e experience and go by what the text says, it looks like the penalty would NOT apply. As has already been quoted, you do not add a dex or int modifier to AC in heavy armor. So you would not take the penalty for that low dex to AC. But of course, your reflex defense, initiative, and dex based skills would blow...so its not like the character is getting away with his low stat scott free.

 

[Jhaelen]

Their Reflex will still -really- suck, tho. They've got a HUGE achilles heel.

This! In the long run it's going to hurt the character A LOT more than the penalty to AC.

 

[Xzylvador]

the whole point of heavy armour is that you can't really 'dodge' in it. You can't dodge out of attacks, and you can't dodge into them either. You just stand there and let it bounce off you. A penalty can't cause you to "stand there and let it bounce off you" any worse, can it? So RAW you don't take the penalty (for reason others put quite well), and i think fluff-wise its believable. heavy armour protects your from your own clumsiness/stupidity as much as it keeps you from using your quickness/intelligence to your benefit.

This.In Light armor, Dex matters because it depends more on avoiding blows than on soaking them.In heavy armor, Dex (negative or positive) has zero effect, because it relies on absorbing blows, not avoiding.