Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War

[Hawke]

Originally Posted by AsmodeusLore
Can we get a copy of the Scales of War overview?
The short answer to this question is “no.” The problem is that we’ve mapped out an elaborate plot that covers level 1 all the way through level 30 and there are a number of surprises along the way. Those “grand reveal” moments won’t be nearly as impactful if they’ve leaked out via plot summaries and/or an overview of where the Path is going. I can assure you that the current fears about the lack of a compelling archvillain, or a logically complete structure, or major NPCs, or a real hook are all misguided. Just wait and see!

Weak. I was about to start a new campaign and was highly considering making it easy and using something like this. Until the group had to break up a few weeks ago, I was happily running the Star Wars Dawn of Defiance arc... but simply can't spend potentially months of gameplay only to find out that the end of the adventure is a bust or that the end goes to places I'm not particuarly interested in going for taste reasons. Sure, you could say "respec it to your needs!" but if I was going to spend time doing so I'd just do my own campaign.

I also hate the patronizing "we're going to protect you from yourselves" tone of it. It was fine with DoD, why not with SoW? I can say that none of my players got any wind of anything, didn't read the overview, and didn't frequent the DoD subforum at wizards.

So there you have it - no SoW for me and one less reason to get involved with DDI.

Any other thoughts?

Edit: Link Ask Wizards: 09/03/2008

 

[El Mahdi]

Why is it when someone tells me - trust me, you can't see it yet, but it's there - I get visions of a sleazy used car salesman trying to sell me a lemon. None of that reply makes logical sense. Star Wars has an adventure path going on the Star Wars page (just a click away from the DnD page) with a complete adventure track synopsis/outline labled for GMs only. Now, I know I don't have WoTC download statistics, but I would imagine if people had stopped downloading the Dawn of Defiance path adventures because they had revealed all of the surprises, they probably wouldn't be putting the effort into posting new ones on the site (with the latest installment being the largest at a substantial 51 page adventure). Sorry, but no! As Joe Pesci said, the defenses case doesn't hold water.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Some reasons I see:
1) There are a lot more people playing 4E than SWSE. No, I don't have numbers to back that up, but I'm certain that's a safe statement.
2) I was downloading the DoD adventures... until I found and read the synopsis. It was great, but since I wasn't actively running the game, I didn't need anymore than the synposis. Had I not read the synopsis, there is a good likelihood that I would be downloading each scenario just to read. Reading the synopsis caused me to end my active engagement with the adventure path.
3) SoW is a big selling point for e-Dungeon. A synopsis may cause similar disengagement in some people. I'm not currently running SoW, but I would like to someday and I look forward to each month's installment since the metaplot hasn't been spoiled by a Cliff's Notes version.
4) I do see the value in being suprised by each month's installment, as the WotC answer states.
5) While I have no doubt that WotC does have the AP planned out as they state, not providing a synopsis means that they retain the flexibility to change things as the game and AP develop over the next 16 months. While some people are disappointed now for not having a synopsis, there would be even more that would complain if WotC later deviated from a published synopsis.

My advice? Run it until it hits a point you don't like, and then go your own direction. Or mine it for the parts you see as gems. For example, 'Bordrin's Watch' has some great cinematic battle locations, even if you don't want the scenario itself.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Seems a little like a case of "over-protection". Won't stop me - or start me - running Scales of Wars, though. But I like the idea that there are some surprises coming the way.

We'll see who will run the adventure path in my group. So far, we're running KotS and the follow-ups, and three converted 3E campaigns, and a Torg campaign. Fitting in another campaign is basically impossible, one would have to go (with the DM staying), so it will take months or years till we can finally start playing it. :/

 

[Wonka]

That answer is just down right insulting, if you ask me. They are basically telling us they know better than us how to run the story. This answer right really, really turns me off to the whole DDI thing now. Ive been behind them for the most part, but if this is the attitude of the staff behind it, why support it? It really makes me sad too, as I was looking forward to a good portion of the things to be offered with DDI. As I am just getting into DMing, I dont have years of experience to fall back on when doing adventures like this. I need these overviews to get a sense of how these are all set up. Maybe some veteran DMs could get by, but this just makes the campaign pretty much not worth running. Coupled with the complete silence on the issue of hi-res maps for the dungeon adventures (something myself who does a lot of my gaming online) just rubs me the wrong way. Just my thoughts, YMMV as always.

 

[reveal]

This is why I wrote an open letter to Randy Buehler.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Now, the lack of a overview doesn make me grumpy, mainly because I thought I could use SoW for my group. Now half of e-Dungeon is effectively useless, at least until the SoW path is close to completion so I can DM it with knowing what I'm doing.

Because doing something without knowing what you're actually doing isn't that great. And as a DM, I need material to work with, not random stuff (if I never now what I get next, it is for my purposes "random", even if it isn't truly random). Because I cannot judge how my adjustments on-the-fly impact the further course of the AP, I may kill off the BBEG in the first adventure without knowing. :/

Cheers, LT.

 

[MerricB]

That post by Randy Buehler is one of the stupidest things I've read. As a DM, I need to know the structure of any adventure path I run. Surprises are for the players, not for the DM.

But, it's par for the course with him: from the absolute failure of the Gleemax blogging system, to the non-appearance of much of the Digital Insider.

If there's someone who more needs to be sacked at Wizards, I don't know who they are. That someone actually wonderfully competent, like Linae Foster, got the boot just shows how much a lot of the managers at Wizards have lost their way.

Very, very unimpressed.

 

[Imaro]

Some reasons I see:

Sorry but I don't see any of these reasons as truly valid.

1) There are a lot more people playing 4E than SWSE. No, I don't have numbers to back that up, but I'm certain that's a safe statement.

Uhm...Paizo put out a campaign overview for their AP...and that was D&D, not Star Wars, and just for the record WotC had to approve everything they did with the mags. So no, I'm not seeing how this is in any way relevant.

2) I was downloading the DoD adventures... until I found and read the synopsis. It was great, but since I wasn't actively running the game, I didn't need anymore than the synposis. Had I not read the synopsis, there is a good likelihood that I would be downloading each scenario just to read. Reading the synopsis caused me to end my active engagement with the adventure path.
So, instead of letting the AP stand on it's own as a product... it's better to trick people into jumping on for the long haul by not letting them know what they are buying into? I'm sorry but the mega adventures you buy from WotC have a back cover blurb that gives an overview of the plot...why is this any different?

3) SoW is a big selling point for e-Dungeon. A synopsis may cause similar disengagement in some people. I'm not currently running SoW, but I would like to someday and I look forward to each month's installment since the metaplot hasn't been spoiled by a Cliff's Notes version.

Uhm...the metaplot of the thing is ruined if your players download the adventures seperately...or download an overview (in fact I would argue an overview would still be broad enough for the individual adventures to contain secrets). Either way withholding an overview doesn't stop this. As for the DM... you need to know what is coming, even if it's just broad strokes. It's called being preparation, continuity, and not being caught off guard if your players do something not accounted for in future adventures. A DM running a published adventure shouldn't be surprised by anything except maybe his players actions.

4) I do see the value in being suprised by each month's installment, as the WotC answer states.

Again, what is the value? The value of being at a loss as to ramifications, the value of not knowing where your campaign is headed, or how to adjust for what isn't accounted for? Really, I'm having a hard time recognizing the value here.

5) While I have no doubt that WotC does have the AP planned out as they state, not providing a synopsis means that they retain the flexibility to change things as the game and AP develop over the next 16 months. While some people are disappointed now for not having a synopsis, there would be even more that would complain if WotC later deviated from a published synopsis.

Or...it allows them to create the adventures as we go, I mean really, it can't be ruled out as a possibility... especially given the near non-exsistant connections between the adventures thus far.

My advice? Run it until it hits a point you don't like, and then go your own direction. Or mine it for the parts you see as gems. For example, 'Bordrin's Watch' has some great cinematic battle locations, even if you don't want the scenario itself.

So use them like any other adventure in Dungeon, totally ignoring their main selling point...Adventure Path (as in fully prepared campaign for you). Yeah ok, why is this a feature again?

 

[carmachu]

Why is it when someone tells me - trust me, you can't see it yet, but it's there - I get visions of a sleazy used car salesman trying to sell me a lemon. None of that reply makes logical sense. Star Wars has an adventure path going on the Star Wars page (just a click away from the DnD page) with a complete adventure track synopsis/outline labled for GMs only.

Actually it makes sense if you think about it in this fashion:They cant give you an overview of something they dont know where its going, nor that they havent finished.....