Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War

[DEP]

I must agre 110% with Merric on this one. WotC has very poor decision making skills.

I have been vocal with how upset I am on the Paizo boards, I believe I was the first to post this there, and I left a rather bitter comment on the WotC boards.

I have a 4e campaign up and going right now. It is a converted STAP. It had too many players for everyone's liking, which would be 10. I personally didn't mind that much. It is now down to 7. I was considering the SoWAP for a second campaign, but after this, they have lost myself and my 9 other players who looked forward to the DDI, although I lost hope a long time ago, this AP was what would make or break it for me. I hyped up a new AP and my players were happy as they all love the RHoD. After this news, their responses were pretty much this:

You mean to tell me the people who made this game won't give us an outline to help our ingame playing and our enjoyment. Nuts to this.

So we are going to 3.5 or Pathfinder.

Well done WotC, losing 10 people and their families.

Too bad it wasn't a shock.

As for the previews, the Shackled City did not have one, AoW did in Erik Mona's editorials he talked alot about the rough outline and such. I think Paizo put one up online also. The STAP had a full outline that was 5 pages in an issue after the AoW ended.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Umm? What? When? When did you get a campaign overview for Shackled City, Age of Worms or Savage Tide? I know the STAP overview came in the last print issue or Dragon, after the last episode of STAP was published. Were there earlier ones printed for AoW or SC?

I don't know about Shackled City, but there was a detailed PDF from Paizo for Age of Worms called Age Of Worms Overload that in addition to giving stats for most of the NPC's in the AP gave a breakdown of each part of the AP. What I noticed was that even though some of the later chapters hadnt even been assigned writers yet the outline of the plot was still presented so that you had an idea of where the story was going.

With Savage Tide they printed the outline in the issue before the 1st part of the AP.

 

[Hussar]

To be fair, Age of Worms Overload came out some time after the AP started. Quite some time as I recall. The Paizo site gives August 5, 2005. Age of Worms started in Issue 124, which released July 05, so, there's a few months gap.

but, yeah, I'm totally wrong on this one. Sorry about that. Feel free to ignore me completely. It usually helps.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I've just started running Rescue at Rivennroar, and while I'd like an overview, I'd actually prefer there to be much more connection between RaR and Siege of Brodrin's Watch. I may just use another module like Scepter Tower of Spellguard - I quite like RaR as a starter adventure, but SoBW seems to be mainly taken up by the description of a city where the adventure does not take place. There's no more reason for me to direct the PCs of the RaR on to SoBW than to any other module.

Also, after playing through Age of War I'm not sure that a single 1-30 AP is that good an idea. I'd really prefer separate paths for heroic, paragon and epic tiers . If the later Scales of War modules are any good I might go back to them.

 

[Reaper Steve]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

 

[Spatula]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

Err. There's a fair bit of a difference between reading a book, and writing the meat of each chapter of a book yourself. An RPG adventure is pretty much just an outline that the DM and players flesh out into a full story. And yeah, it's hard to tell a story well if you don't know where it's going (not that that will matter to every group).

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

Only if you believe a DM is comparable with the reader of a book. I think the DM of a published module is closer to the director of a play written by someone else. And it's usually a good idea for the director to have a script when they start the first act.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

To be fair, Age of Worms Overload came out some time after the AP started. Quite some time as I recall. The Paizo site gives August 5, 2005. Age of Worms started in Issue 124, which released July 05, so, there's a few months gap.

I have not been following the new Dungeon adventure path in case one of our DMs wants to run it (which has been put forward as an idea) so take the following with that in mind.

I am however finishing off DMing our Age of Worms adventure path which has been lots of fun. The Age of Worms Overload document followed pretty closely from when I got the first magazine. As a fantastic tool for enthusing DMs to run it for their players, it was a pure masterstroke by Paizo. It showed they were going to go the extra mile for their readers and support their product to the hilt. This support continued with the issue downloads as well as the player support in corresponding Dragon Issues.

For Wizards to pass up the opportunity to do this when it is kind of expected from those already used to such things from Paizo's Dungeon is a shame and a lost opportunity. Maybe they are waiting for the subscriptions to start to protect DMs from nosy players. However if true, it seems kind of pointless as whole issues are available at the moment - and if a player is stupid enough to undermine their DM in such a way, they are most probably get in somehow. I think perhaps the path is incomplete (there are most likely holes here and there) and they are concerned about producing something that didn't match with the eventual product? Perhaps this is a sign that whoever is organising the path hasn't been as organised as they should be? The Age of Worms Overload outline didn't follow the eventual path precisely (it emphasised some things that didn't quite eventuate and didn't mention others that did) but even still, it was a great document for getting DMs on board and this seems what WotC should be trying to do with this new one.

Or perhaps it is as Randy says, maybe the surprises shall be worth it for players and DMs alike. Or perhaps it is another piece of lousy PR regarding WotC's handling of Dragon and Dungeon?

Time will tell... and that's a shame in itself.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[MerricB]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

That is, without doubt, one of the weakest arguments I have seen.

A DM is not in the same position as a book reader. A DM is responsible for guiding a group of players through an entire adventure arc. The DM is far more of a writer than a reader.

Knowledge is extremely important for a DM, especially when it comes to running NPCs, and it becomes even more important in Adventure Paths. The amount of time you will spend running them is significant, and thus your preparation must also be significant. These are Railroads, and they present significant problems for keeping players interested and in the campaign. If the campaign as a whole will not appeal to my players, I'd rather know that now rather than force it upon them.

Make no mistake: an adventure path is one of the hardest things to DM in full, and a DM needs all the help he can get.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

The line of reasoning that argues 'we are owed a synopsis from the very beginning so I know exactly what is going to happen before I invest my time' is flawed.
Using that reasoning, every fiction author should be expected to summarize their entire story arc at the front of the very first book of a series.

I think your own postulation is flawed. The role of a DM consuming an adventure path and a reader consuming a series of books is completely different. The demands on a DM are far harsher than those on a reader. Seems like you pushed that analogy out before you sent it to the brain for processing - happens to all of us so don't worry.
However, I think the main reason for DMs perhaps feeling "owed" an outline or synopsis is because it is what has been done for the past couple of Dungeon adventure paths (so why not this one too). From experience, I can say it was a huge aid in bringing the path (Age of Worms for me) together as a whole; rather than just as a series of modules - the whole being greater than the sum of its parts kinda thing).
As for the investment of time thing, that is a serious reality - two and a half years and running for me and my group. I wouldn't get into such a path lightly and you perhaps shouldn't dismiss DMs for being careful in this regard.

Beat Regards
Herremann the Wise